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Post  eaustinn36 7th April 2011, 6:32 pm

Made in Finland wrote:Hmmm, I'm not sure to who you're referring with that post?

Sorry I wasn't clear. It was directed towards mboddz's short post above that directly addressed me. I edited my previous post (@mboddz).
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Post  Jagdgeschwader 7th April 2011, 7:10 pm

steveeee wrote:
i bet you voted for George bush

Couldn't vote then, but I would've (Don't start a debate on this)

steveeee wrote:but seriously stop beating around the bush, you say not to legalize it but then you say that the cartels won't stop selling it and committing crimes, how do we fix this? fight an endless war and spend billions while the us is already spending that much on military expenses?

Just because a fight against evil is everlasting doesn't mean we give in to it. The entire reason why I've addressed the suppliers is for a number of reasons.

1. They supply other drugs (much worse as you have admitted)
2. Marijuana serves as a gateway drug. You don't start taking cocaine or methamphetamines on the fly, you work up to it to get a better high.

steveeee wrote:why bother trying so hard to get rid of marijuana and just giving the "cartels" a reason to fight for it, when we could use the money ourselves? if it was made legal, the fucking cartels would be slowed down dramatically. but you won't listen to anyone elses ideas. its not the cartels, its us, we're the ones buying it from them because its illegal to grow in america

You still have the problem of cartels and they still make loads of money. This doesn't fix any problems. I do listen to everyone's points, and their debates are valid but I see them as fallacies and not the real solution. You may have not noticed but I'm also for banning tobacco as well. This can serve as a gateway drug to marijuana which serves as a gateway to much worse drugs. Since you all are against 'worse drugs', you should be willing to take that hit against you for other people. It's no new knowledge that cannabis leads to much more serious drugs.

Fin, that's what I meant when saying 'additives'.

steveeee wrote:http://marijuanavaporizer.com/vaporizer-benefits.html
theres that ^ and all the shit you can put THC into

brownies
cookies
gum
lip balm
water
candy

that way no smoke enters your lungs and that pretty much takes away the carcinogens or "cancer causing" chemicals or whatever and lowers the health risk dramatically

This was proven to be even more toxic in the last article in some cases, since it takes longer to get high and therefore more is consumed before your high. Smoking isn't the only way to get those carcinogens, ingesting will as well.


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Post  steveeeee 7th April 2011, 7:46 pm

once again, we're not arguing about the cartels we're talking about the legalization marijuana in AMERICA.

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Post  Masta Shef 7th April 2011, 7:47 pm

I prefer the black exhaust smoke from a Cummins Ram. It's way more bad ass to roll coal than smoke it. Diesel is the coolest way to get cancer.

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Post  Jagdgeschwader 7th April 2011, 7:51 pm

steveeee wrote:once again, we're not arguing about the cartels we're talking about the legalization marijuana in AMERICA.

Once again you fail to notice that it's a huge nail in the coffin for legalization and health defects have also been put into the argument now. Why legalize another 'tobacco'?

Nice drag racing shef.
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Post  mboddz751 8th April 2011, 12:56 am

eaustinn36 wrote:@Mboddz - Hmmm... not buying it. No way inhaling that kind of smoke is not cancerous. I think it's about time I looked into this more....


Oh wait a minute! It appears your sources are outdated. I knew that kind of counter-logic didn't make sense. So, it weed cancerous? How about yes.

Article Jan 19th, 2011: http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

Let's keep going...

Article 2: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm

And here's an article from 2 months ago: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-teenage-mind/201102/does-marijuana-cause-cancer

Should I keep going?

To be fair, I looks at some articles saying the opposite.. then I looked at the dates: all outdated.

I rest my case.

I sense some snobbery in your posting (that could just be me). Anyway, none of these articles CONFIRM that marijuana cause cancer directly ( I won't argue that it is healthy for you cause it clearly isn't). One article stated that the use in combination with tobacco does (or may) but besides that all of your articles only suggest that it could possibly be linked. Again none of your "proof" actually clearly indicates what you're trying to state.

so please don't state : "is weed cancerous. Yes."
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Post  andrew 8th April 2011, 1:05 am

Tons of shit causes cancer and is dangerous/unhealthy. It should be illegal to use cell phones, get a tan, eat fast food, watch television, PLAY VIDEO GAMES, to gamble, to drive, to use your emotions (anger/sadness), and do many other things that are unhealthy or are dangerous. Just because its unhealthy and we can't be a perfect society if people are unhealthy!

Wrong.

You can do a lot of shit to try and control a person's lifestyle, but you won't succeed. Going for the healthy option is not what this country should be doing, being healthy is solely up to the person.


Point being, don't try to change things and try to control how people live their life. If they want to smoke, drink, get fat, whatever, let them. Lets just forget about them, the healthy route isn't going to benefit the country. Like Erik said, he doesn't like the idea but he thinks weed should be legalized, that's a step in the right direction. But the other argument on banning everything that people do that pose " health risks" is impossible. It sounds GREAT, but again, impossible
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Post  mboddz751 8th April 2011, 1:10 am

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
steveeee wrote:once again, we're not arguing about the cartels we're talking about the legalization marijuana in AMERICA.

Once again you fail to notice that it's a huge nail in the coffin for legalization and health defects have also been put into the argument now. Why legalize another 'tobacco'?

Nice drag racing shef.

whatever your opinion of weed is, at the end of the day a large amount of Americans will buy it and use it (obviously). Do you want to continue funding these cartels that you love to go on about or do you at least wan't to put some ducats into the economy?
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Post  steveeeee 8th April 2011, 9:57 am

.

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Post  eaustinn36 8th April 2011, 10:57 am

@mboddz - Wasn't going for snobbery there, but after rereading the post, it does sound a little bit that way, sry Shocked

But, as one of the articles stated: "Since marijuana is illegal, it is hard to do the controlled studies that have been done with tobacco. Because of this, it helps to look at what we do know about marijuana:

* Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

* Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

etc..."

It is proven that this leads to cancerous conditions. While evidence may have no directly made a link, yet, all of the evidence that is already here points in that direction still.

If Marijuana is legalized (and large scale studies can occur), I can guarentee within 2-3 years they will have a direct link found. Just because something isn't 100% proven yet (although these articles put it pretty close) doesn't mean it is not true. If cigarettes were illegal back then, it probably would've taken them much longer to realize the cancerous effects.

While "none of [my] 'proof' actually clearly indicates what [i'm] trying to state", it does however show that the "misconception" you talk about does not exist. The articles more so don't prove my point, but disprove yours.
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Post  Masta Shef 8th April 2011, 11:01 am

Austinn I think your "final solution" could work. It might have a few flaws but maybe we should try that instead of arguing.
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Post  steveeeee 8th April 2011, 11:55 am

Masta Shef wrote:Austinn I think your "final solution" could work. It might have a few flaws but maybe we should try that instead of arguing.
nice


but i'm going to be honest and stop arguing with you guys because its not working.

Why is alcohol legal when it ruins peoples lives, makes people do stupid shit, like driving there car into a house or just driving drunk in general. it fucks up your body and causes cancer. you can die from drinking too much, so basically what im saying is it fucks shit up.

when marijuana is illegal, it pretty much makes you feel ok with not doing anything, so that means you're not hurting anyone or doing something completely stupid, and if you are you're usually not out in public, you're with friends or by yourself hiding somewhere. You can't die from smoking to much in one day, like you can with drinking to much alcohol. it doesn't make you sick and feel like death the next morning, and it isn't complete poison for your body. yeah it MAY cause cancer/increase risk of cancer, but alcohol is directly linked with cancer. http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/DietandPhysicalActivity/alcohol-use-and-cancer

marijuana and alcohol are SO similar in my opinion. to me theres no reason not to legalize marijuana. People used to die over alcohol during prohibition because it was in such a demand that people wanted as much of it as possible, like marijuana is now,

all im saying is prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and its clearly not working for marijuana, so why doesn't america just make some money instead of spending so much trying to stop it from being used.
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Post  Masta Shef 8th April 2011, 12:25 pm

steveeee wrote:People used to die over alcohol during prohibition because it was in such a demand that people wanted as much of it as possible, like marijuana is now,

People died over alcohol because it was made poorly with bad ingredients in a rusty bath tub. Drug related violence can all be traced back to greed.
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Post  eaustinn36 8th April 2011, 3:48 pm

@stevee - I know it wasn't directed at me (or was it?), but I never said I support alcohol either. The "ideal" solution is clear, however, prohibition in the real world didn't work, and it's still not working for weed either.

@Shef - Well yes this "solution" has flaws, all solutions do, otherwise there would be 100% agreement on it. Not much more to say on that; I think it is our "best" option on the table now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, consdering we've been on weed (topic wise) a good while now, I was thinking we could switch quickly to a shorter "America current event" (feel free to continue the previous discussion and ignore me if you want). So, what's the new issue?

- 9 hours (from this post) till our federal gov't shuts down, literally.

Thoughts? Reflections? Concerns? etc?

And a link for those who are unaware: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/government-shutdown-potential-furloughs-for-800000-federal-workers-disruption-of-dc-services/2011/04/06/AFRItOqC_story.html

The longest US Govt shutdown "stretched 21 days from Dec. 15, 1995 to Jan. 6, 1996."
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Post  steveeeee 8th April 2011, 5:03 pm

how does a government just shut down?
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Post  Jagdgeschwader 8th April 2011, 7:38 pm

The House of Representatives didn't pass a bill last year when they had Democratic majority. Now the Republicans have a significant amount of members in the House and getting a budget passed that both can agree on is looking...difficult.

A Government shutdown won't last long, like Erik said, the longest only lasted three weeks.

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Post  Made in Finland 9th April 2011, 4:48 pm

Since Government Shutdown isn't really proving a popular discussion, I guess I'll post this:

http://vimeo.com/20656976

Thoughts? Here are mine:

1) Disgusting.
Any facility that treats animals like this should be closed, or if it's one worker breaking the rules (many of the people on that actually were) of the facility, he should be fired.

2) Propaganda.
Obviously, the footage on that video is not the common practice in the food production. Those are mainly very extreme examples. And, as I said in 1), they should be closed/fired. And so they were. Did they mention this on the video? No they did not, because it's propaganda. It only shows the dark side, and gives you the idea that it's common practice to do so, even though it's very frowned upon even inside the industry itself.

3) Absolutely disgusting propaganda.
I mean the "Go Vegan" propaganda at the end of the video. Seriously? WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT GOING TO HELP!? You'd be turning your back on the problem, not helping it. If you want to help, then do something to advance more humane meat production! Sure, go vegan too if you want, but that itself is not going to change ANYTHING.
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Post  A Groovy Tophat 9th April 2011, 5:34 pm

Very hard to watch. Like you said, they completely missed what we should be doing and instead said "GO VEGAN" to save the animals.


I facepalmed when i heard "Go vegan." But ya like you said we should be doing things like making sure slaughter houses are humain and that the animals are raised in a manner that not where near as crual as what it is now.
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Post  BLACK SNOW 13 9th April 2011, 6:29 pm

Is it bad to get more hungry, while eating, watching this....

Also when he said go to chooseveg.org I though he said choosevag.org LOL

Overall: Does not bother me.
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Post  Jagdgeschwader 9th April 2011, 7:04 pm

It should bother you, it's extremely inhumane.
I worked at a meat factory about a year ago locally for a few months. This kind of treatment is very much frowned upon and to see that happening is pretty disappointing.

Then again I stopped watching three minutes into because this kind of propaganda is so one-sided it's not even worth watching.
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Post  eaustinn36 9th April 2011, 8:09 pm

Wow... completely inhumane.

I'll be honest: I'm not really a meat person. Now don't misinterpret that, i'm not a vegan either, but I would still take a salad over steak any day. Still eat meat though.

Regardless of that, there's not much for me to say on this really. Agree with everything Fin said; however, it would be foolish to think that this doesn't happen in some place's outside this video. Regardless, propaganda indeed.
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Post  andrew 11th April 2011, 4:25 pm

Didn't watch the video, but I'll say this. I am a meat eater and I love it Smile
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Post  Jagdgeschwader 11th April 2011, 6:05 pm

andr_00_ew wrote:Didn't watch the video, but I'll say this. I am a meat eater and I love it Smile

Wow...^
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Post  andrew 11th April 2011, 8:02 pm

What's wrong with being a person that eats meat?

edit: watched the video, definitely should not be doing that stuff to animals, but I still don't think it's wrong to eat them. But doing what the video showed is at a lack of better words, fucked up. Definitely glad I'm not going to work at a place like that Neutral
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Post  Masta Shef 11th April 2011, 9:11 pm

Anybody who doesn't eat meat for the sake of saving animals has no concept of how the world works.
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