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Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

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Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  DeadApe on 13th February 2013, 6:20 pm




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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Meatshield718 on 13th February 2013, 7:22 pm

"Good thing I'm not wrong"

OH SHI- /endvideo

I'm really surprised that that wasn't a Christians: 1 Atheists:0 video.

I agree with much of what he's saying. I guess the main reason I'm agnostic is because no matter which holy text you look at, they all believe in an all powerful being that will praise or punish you based on good or bad. Yet, there are many religions even in modern society, and no god or gods have used their power to prove false gods. It's obvious at this point that humans have been around much longer before modern religions were created. What happened to people before then? Were they sent to hell for pageantry? What about all of North and South America, Africa, Australia, and Asia before Christianity was introduced to them? It's loopholes like these in religion that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

It's understandable why religion was created. The Muslim belief of the ban on alcohol and other drugs makes sense. Drugs can bring down a society. The Ten Commandments are another example. They are basic rules on how to treat others, and they help form a society that will thrive. Would people believe these things if they were not told of the punishments involved if they didn't? I personally don't think so.

Our society has evolved beyond the necessity of religion, which I now believe has been replaced with law and culture. Children learn from their environment what to do and not do. the norms of society are enough to get people to do something now. Don't believe me? Look at even minor things like fashion. Something tells me you aren't wearing crocks, nylon pants, and a balaclava mask right now.

I think if I found myself in front of a christian god I would feel a lot like I did at the end of Mass Effect 3. I'd be wondering what the hell was going on and I would find myself with a ridiculous amount of unanswered questions.

IT IS NOT A THING YOU CAN COMPREHEND


Yes I know that isn't where the line is said, but I hope you get the point.

However, I don't believe in atheism as a whole. This might be just a little too finicky on the definition but Atheism involves the belief that there is no greater being or godly figure. I find it difficult to believe that I'm not here for some reason or another, or that there isn't something that is "greater" than I. I think a lot of bad scientists forget that just because one thing didn't happen or doesn't happen doesn't mean that the opposite occurred. It happens way too much...

So there's my thoughts. What do you think?

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  snowwolf1996 on 13th February 2013, 7:32 pm

That was very enlightening thank you
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 13th February 2013, 7:47 pm

Law and culture don't replace religion, they complement it. In fact, they're shaped by it. It would be foolish today to say that Eastern culture hasn't been heavily influenced by Buddhism and Hinduism. It would be foolish to say that Western culture isn't heavily influenced by Christianity, and the Middle East by Islam, Africa by its localized religions and tribal cultures which change by the village. Were the Greeks and Romans not bound by their religions as well? Or the Pharaohs of Egypt? They all had their unique laws and culture. Religion always accompanied.

There's also no reason to abandon religion especially when it still dominates the world. The world we live in isn't so much different then it was a hundred years ago, or two hundred, or even that. The philosophy we abide by today is rooted in the thousands of years before us. The only thing that truly sets us apart from our ancestors is our understanding of how, literally, the world works.

It is a little bit pompous to say that modern society has evolved beyond religion. I believe that's a modern misconception born out of the innumerable scientific discoveries in the past two hundred years, and especially the last one hundred years, and especially the last fifty years.

So Meatshield, you are definitely wise not to fall into that misconception, after all, just because something doesn't happen doesn't mean the opposite does. That right there is a logical fallacy, but I personally would not be satisfied with just being 'lost'.
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  ApocalypseVVolf. on 13th February 2013, 7:55 pm

Spoiler:

If I'm wrong then I guess I just get anally penetrated by demon cocks for the rest of my afterlife. But currently, any religion has done a real shitty job convincing me that their deities exist. And I feel Christians have a real tarnished reputation as of late, with the whole "Stupid gays! You'll go to hell!" thing. I mean, unless I'm up in the morning eating my cereal, and out of nowhere there's this flaccid penis in my bowl of lucky charms, I don't have a problem with the whole homosexual dilemma, it's all about the pleasure thing, baby. Most Christians appear to be very narrow minded in more situations than the homosexual pickle (Get it, because the pi-). I just don't get it. I'd much rather be sided with atheists who rely on a currently growing field of practice.

Science is giving more and more believable theories each day as religion becomes less and less present. I just see most religions as moral guidelines for those seeking them. But hey, I'm not saying Religion didn't do a good job in it's hay-day. Fuck, we wouldn't be where we are now without faith and all that other stuff.

I don't know, there's probably more loopholes in these two paragraphs than Gary Busey's face. It's just my view on shit.


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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 13th February 2013, 8:10 pm

ApocalypseVVolf. wrote:
Spoiler:

If I'm wrong then I guess I just get anally penetrated by demon cocks for the rest of my afterlife. But currently, any religion has done a real shitty job convincing me that their deities exist. And I feel Christians have a real tarnished reputation as of late, with the whole "Stupid gays! You'll go to hell!" thing. I mean, unless I'm up in the morning eating my cereal, and out of nowhere there's this flaccid penis in my bowl of lucky charms, I don't have a problem with the whole homosexual dilemma, it's all about the pleasure thing, baby. Most Christians appear to be very narrow minded in more situations than the homosexual pickle (Get it, because the pi-). I just don't get it. I'd much rather be sided with atheists who rely on a currently growing field of practice as opposed to a manuscript which was written back when people liked to crucify each other, and clang swords together, or whatever.

As Meatshield said, we existed before religion did. And then suddenly, out of Hong-Kong nowhere Christianity get's shit out of the middle-east at the very convenient time humans have the ability to read & write. Why weren't our first developments as humans introduced to other Religions, with Christianity included? I guess that'd be contradicting the whole one true god thing, but still. Don't give me that Adam & Eve poppycock either, I'll kick you in the groin.

Science is giving more and more believable theories each day as religion becomes less and less present. I just see most religions as moral guidelines for those seeking them. But hey, I'm not saying Religion didn't do a good job in it's hay-day. Fuck, we wouldn't be where we are now without faith and all that other stuff.

I don't know, there's probably more loopholes in these two paragraphs than Gary Busey's face. It's just my view on shit.

It's very uninformed at that, and if you know it, you shouldn't even say it. People wrote before common era, and quite a bit actually. Judaism is one of the oldest monotheistic religions in the world, stretching back at the least 3,000 years with the patriarch Abraham, probably one of the most influential people in the entire modern world.

Have you ever heard of ancient Rome and ancient Greece? Or ancient China for that matter? The Abrahamic religions are just the new norm as of about 3,000 years. If you want to go into a time without religion, you need to go back to a time when the extent of the human race didn't surpass the Nile River.
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Meatshield718 on 13th February 2013, 8:20 pm

Jagdgeschwader wrote:Law and culture don't replace religion, they complement it. In fact, they're shaped by it. It would be foolish today to say that Eastern culture hasn't been heavily influenced by Buddhism and Hinduism. It would be foolish to say that Western culture isn't heavily influenced by Christianity, and the Middle East by Islam, Africa by its localized religions and tribal cultures which change by the village. Were the Greeks and Romans not bound by their religions as well? Or the Pharaohs of Egypt? They all had their unique laws and culture. Religion always accompanied.

There's also no reason to abandon religion especially when it still dominates the world. The world we live in isn't so much different then it was a hundred years ago, or two hundred, or even that. The philosophy we abide by today is rooted in the thousands of years before us. The only thing that truly sets us apart from our ancestors is our understanding of how, literally, the world works.

It is a little bit pompous to say that modern society has evolved beyond religion. I believe that's a modern misconception born out of the innumerable scientific discoveries in the past two hundred years, and especially the last one hundred years, and especially the last fifty years.

So Meatshield, you are definitely wise not to fall into that misconception, after all, just because something doesn't happen doesn't mean the opposite does. That right there is a logical fallacy, but I personally would not be satisfied with just being 'lost'.



I believe that our culture and law is certainly rooted in past religion, that's for sure. There's a reason why we still learn about Greek and Roman mythology in public school; They teach valuable lessons about morals, justice, and society. However, they are just that, tools to help us learn how to be better. (That's the culture side of things). Relgions have also taught us to obey laws. Although exaggerated, in these mythological tales we learn about punishment connected to certain wrong-doings. Laws and justice replace the concept of "hell", where you are then punished for your wrong doings. Now we have a justice system that is far better. In hell you can not redeem yourself. In a criminal justice system you can. In an ideal justice system, the populous will always be improving.

There's also no reason to abandon religion especially when it still dominates the world. The world we live in isn't so much different then it was a hundred years ago, or two hundred, or even that.

Just because religion is a big factor in the world doesn't mean it should remain that way. Many modern wars are caused simply because of conflicting religions. The fact that you say we aren't so different from hundreds of years ago shows a lack of progress in humanity, with religion being the key inhibitor.

Perhaps saying that society has surpassed the need for religion in a larger statement than it should be. I should rephrase that by stating that society should surpass the need for religion much like many European countries already have.

So Meatshield, you are definitely wise not to fall into that misconception, after all, just because something doesn't happen doesn't mean the opposite does. That right there is a logical fallacy, but I personally would not be satisfied with just being 'lost'.

Yes! I am not satisfied with saying "I don't know". That is why I keep looking for answers and solutions until I find one that suits me. However, Christianity and Atheism are currently lacking enough evidence for me to support either of them! Still, I believe it's fair to say that the burden of proof should be on both the relgious and non-religious person.

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  ApocalypseVVolf. on 13th February 2013, 8:21 pm

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
ApocalypseVVolf. wrote:
Spoiler:

If I'm wrong then I guess I just get anally penetrated by demon cocks for the rest of my afterlife. But currently, any religion has done a real shitty job convincing me that their deities exist. And I feel Christians have a real tarnished reputation as of late, with the whole "Stupid gays! You'll go to hell!" thing. I mean, unless I'm up in the morning eating my cereal, and out of nowhere there's this flaccid penis in my bowl of lucky charms, I don't have a problem with the whole homosexual dilemma, it's all about the pleasure thing, baby. Most Christians appear to be very narrow minded in more situations than the homosexual pickle (Get it, because the pi-). I just don't get it. I'd much rather be sided with atheists who rely on a currently growing field of practice.

Science is giving more and more believable theories each day as religion becomes less and less present. I just see most religions as moral guidelines for those seeking them. But hey, I'm not saying Religion didn't do a good job in it's hay-day. Fuck, we wouldn't be where we are now without faith and all that other stuff.

I don't know, there's probably more loopholes in these two paragraphs than Gary Busey's face. It's just my view on shit.

It's very uninformed at that, and if you know it, you shouldn't even say it. People wrote before common era, and quite a bit actually. Judaism is one of the oldest monotheistic religions in the world, stretching back at the least 3,000 years with the patriarch Abraham, probably one of the most influential people in the entire modern world.

Have you ever heard of ancient Rome and ancient Greece? Or ancient China for that matter? The Abrahamic religions are just the new norm as of about 3,000 years. If you want to go into a time without religion, you need to go back to a time when the extent of the human race didn't surpass the Nile River.

Fix'd.
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  eaustinn36 on 13th February 2013, 8:37 pm

Wow I was completely expecting a different kind of video.

Rather than get into a giant text wall, I am completely on the same / similar page as the video guy and Meatshield's first post. I will say though that I am far more a man of science than faith.

One thing I don't like though, is when a religious person comes up to me (any religion, we'll use Christianity as an example) and tells me that without religion, there would be pure chaos; without the 10 commandments, everyone would rape, kill, murder, and do it freely, because, without religion, you have no morals... you don't need religion to have morals.

Spoiler:
Was referencing this "wonderful" video with the above:



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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 13th February 2013, 8:38 pm

Meatshield718 wrote:Just because religion is a big factor in the world doesn't mean it should remain that way. Many modern wars are caused simply because of conflicting religions. The fact that you say we aren't so different from hundreds of years ago shows a lack of progress in humanity, with religion being the key inhibitor.

Perhaps saying that society has surpassed the need for religion in a larger statement than it should be. I should rephrase that by stating that society should surpass the need for religion much like many European countries already have.

I still wouldn't consider European countries as having 'surpassed' the need for religion, seeing as humans as long as they have existed have never really surpassed the need for it, or at least not for long since there are cases of state-atheism such as the case in Communist countries like the Soviet Union and China.

I would consider it as 'The more things change, the more they stay the same'. We still encounter the same problems our ancestors did long ago, adultery, treason, drug abuse, law-breakers and such. These problems never go away, and I never believe they will. People still kill each other over clashing ideologies and they always will. It is a never ending struggle that can't be evolved across, it is simply embossed in the human mindset. I think we personally give humans too much credit for what we are, animals. Humans will always take sides, they'll always have philosophically mind boggling questions like 'Who are we', 'Where are we going', 'What's our purpose', 'How did we get here' and it truly is a mystery. This is where you cannot get rid of the religion aspect. Science cannot answer these questions with certainty, science can only explain how these things work internally. Whenever these questions are poised on someone, they will turn to whatever seems to have the answer, this is why religion persists. The Western dissonance seen today is very new, and its a result of Christianity and other modern religions not upgrading their approaches to people. Not even fifty years ago, juvenile delinquents were taken to church to rehabilitate, and no less than a century ago, 'Correctional Facilities' as we know today were called 'Penitentiaries', like penitence.

We still face the same problems we have all our existence. There's no reason the same results won't resurface from our efforts, tried by our ancestors millenia ago. They just update with time.
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Super Mega King on 13th February 2013, 8:40 pm

This is where you cannot get rid of the religion aspect. Science cannot answer these questions with certainty, science can only explain how these things work internally.

Sorry to nitpick, but just because science hasn't, doesn't mean it can't.

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  eaustinn36 on 13th February 2013, 8:48 pm

Super Mega King wrote:
This is where you cannot get rid of the religion aspect. Science cannot answer these questions with certainty, science can only explain how these things work internally.

Sorry to nitpick, but just because science hasn't, doesn't mean it can't.

+1

Just because science hasn't explained it yet, doesn't mean it can't; we just haven't gotten that far yet. Go back enough years and people though the Sun revolved around the Earth, among other things; little by little, we discover more and more about our existence. I'm not saying everything possible can be explained scientifically, but to rule out the possibility that it can is foolish. Besides, science is far more factual than faith. It is common to explain everything that currently isn't understood with the "supernatural", but over the past thousands of years, the "supernatural" ideology has been declining as more and more things are understood.

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Meatshield718 on 13th February 2013, 8:59 pm

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
I still wouldn't consider European countries as having 'surpassed' the need for religion, seeing as humans as long as they have existed have never really surpassed the need for it, or at least not for long since there are cases of state-atheism such as the case in Communist countries like the Soviet Union and China.

Atheism was not the reason for the failures of the USSR. In fact, it had nothing to do with it. People even still practiced Orthodox Christianity (and other religions) anyway. Heck, it's just as easy for a Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist to make a communist state too. Marx and Lenin were just some of the first thinkers to come up with the idea of removing religion from the equation because it causes so many problems. (But atheism sure did help the american populous hate the commies a lot more).

I agree that we face similar problems to those in the past; but for most people in first world countries we don't need to tell them that they are going to hell... Normal punishment and societal influence are good enough.

Sweden for example would be a country whose populous is rapidly becoming less religious while their society doesn't fall to ruins.

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Desert Sleepy on 13th February 2013, 9:03 pm

eaustinn36 wrote:Was referencing this "wonderful" video with the above:


Jesus, the person who made this is a really questionable director. Seriously, why the fuck did the guy keep randomly having a bright, milk-mustache-esque spot above his lips? And it's pretty weird for the guy to just sit down in tons of random locations. Whatever.

Dangerous ground on this topic. Do you guys know how many wars have been started by religion? There was like... the crusades a millennium ago. Seriously though, I always hear about how many wars have been started by religion, but nobody's really listed them. All the recent wars I can think of would no doubt have started without religion. Iraq, Afghanistan, the Gulf War, Vietnam, Korea, World War II, World War I, the Civil War, the War of 1812, the Revolutionary War. I really can't think of any war in American history that was started because of religion. I suppose Afghanistan could have been started in part because of the religion of third world fundamentalists, but I'm sure they'd have attacked us anyway and chalked it up to imperialism or economic oppression or something. And even if they didn't, their actions are hardly indicative of virtually all modern religious people (third world/fundamentalists).

So really, I'm not outright dismissing that argument, but is there any relatively modern example of a war caused by religion (by people who weren't fundamentalists, who maybe have access to half decent education and don't live in a shithole)?
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  DeadApe on 13th February 2013, 10:38 pm

It strikes me as odd that the only arguments for religion seem to be talking about its utility in society rather than if they actually believe in it.

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  Meatshield718 on 13th February 2013, 10:39 pm

DeadApe wrote:It strikes me as odd that the only arguments for religion seem to be talking about its utility in society rather than if they actually believe in it.

I think it's just to avoid offence more than anything.

Do you believe any of them?

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  ztron on 13th February 2013, 10:40 pm

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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

Post  . ADestroyer360 on 13th February 2013, 10:48 pm

Right or wrong, at least I'm not a dick about it.
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Re: Atheists...What if you're wrong? [Video]

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