Re: US Loses AAA Credit Rating

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 4:53 am

Yes, and it's worse than what it was before, even if slightly so.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 4:56 am

Super Mega King wrote:Yes, and it's worse than what it was before, even if slightly so.

...

It's not even one complete letter grade. If anything those credit agencies are being generous. With the deals that get made in Washington, it should be something along the line of a C.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 4:56 am

Super Mega King wrote:Yes, and it's worse than what it was before, even if slightly so.

**Meatshield718** 15th January 2012, 4:57 am

Super Mega King wrote:

Yes, it is is a deal. It's a slippery slope. It's a foreboding of things to come. An omen.

I don't see how you can take the news that the economic downturn is literally continuing and getting worse with such apathy.

No. No, it's not. In fact, we're seeing improvement. As long as The Euro gets it's act together, the outlook is pretty positive for us.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 4:58 am

Meatshield718 wrote:
Super Mega King wrote:

Yes, it is is a deal. It's a slippery slope. It's a foreboding of things to come. An omen.

I don't see how you can take the news that the economic downturn is literally continuing and getting worse with such apathy.

No. No, it's not. In fact, we're seeing improvement. As long as The Euro gets it's act together, the outlook is pretty positive for us.

Yes, as long as the Euro gets it's act together, and that remains to be seen.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 5:02 am

Super Mega King wrote:
I don't see how you can take the news that the economic downturn is literally continuing and getting worse with such apathy.

Because it's not a deal.

At this point, I'm completely apathetic. Let a downfall come. Maybe it will mature us as a society like it did our forefathers.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:04 am

If it truly matured our forefathers then I don't think that history would have repeated itself.

**Meatshield718** 15th January 2012, 5:04 am

Actually, you know what, you might be right.

This is bad for the economy because it lowers consumer confidence (ex. SMK Razz

), when the media tries to over-state what they are really trying to say.

And that is, taking a bond from these countries is no longer 99% safe return, but rather, slightly less.

Yeah, the EU has some reforming to do, but it's not a death sentence for the U.S. Stop thinking this. :/

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:06 am

but it's not a death sentence for the U.S. Stop thinking this. :/

Don't misunderstand me, I never said this.

**Meatshield718** 15th January 2012, 5:08 am

Then why are you using such powerful terms such as calling this an "omen"?

Honestly, it sounded like you were ready to make a bunker.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:10 am

Because it is an omen. If it doesn't speak death to the U.S, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 5:14 am

Super Mega King wrote:If it truly matured our forefathers then I don't think that history would have repeated itself.

A society, not the business. Business stays the same, that never changes and it never will. The economic boom of the 20s and the Great Depression birthed the Greatest Generation and the Silent Generation.

As a citizen, I have no say in anything that happens with the quarreling of nations, even if I think I do. As far as I'm concerned, I might as well not even try. Rather, I better just adapt to the situation than mindlessly complain about the decisions men make in their offices away from the world.

I'm not even 20 years old, and I'm not even sure I'll vote. I'm already tired of taking the side of some man I know nothing about and defending him against other men defending their candidates they know nothing about. What's the point honestly? Nothing changes. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Doesn't matter what they say.

I'd be a soldier over a politician any day. Things are a lot simpler in that profession.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:19 am

Indifference and complacence are the enemies of change.

**eaustinn36** 15th January 2012, 5:19 am

I agree with SMK on a few things.

It is a slippery slope. You only see it as "1 downgrade", but that was just Austria and France that the article referenced. Other euro-nations received multiple leveled downgrades, and S&P say MORE are yet to come.

And 1 change is a big deal. Example, as mentioned in the article, France and Germany are leading the euro bailout fund. With France's hit, interest rates for lenders shot up, and France's borrowing capacity to fund bailout's was slashed (from 440 billion euros (about $558 billion) to around 293 billion). THAT IS WELL OVER 100 BILLION EUROS LOST from the bailout fund, from that ONE downgrade.

Also look at interest rates from nations with credit rating's on it's debt. Italy which got downgraded is nearing 7%, while AAA nations are hovering around 1.5% (that is a HUGE difference when talking in billions of borrowed money).

It's a global economy, and US exports are tanking in Europe because of the euro crisis. A complete euro-zone financial collapse would destroy the US also (not saying that it would happen though).

**Meatshield718** 15th January 2012, 5:23 am

Well, I guess it's a better time than ever to allow monetary and fiscal policy regarding the Euro be throughout the entire EU so that this is easier to fix.

And yes Eaustinn, lower interest rate= safer investment

The reason why their interest rates are higher is because they want people to buy their bonds. There's more risk, but a higher payout.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 5:28 am

Super Mega King wrote:Indifference and complacence are the enemies of change.

And what does your activism solve? Nothing, you can sit behind your computer all day, and you can go out and protest wall street all day but you're fighting Capitalism at a fight it specializes in. Put in restrictions, it will just cause them to find another way around it.

We don't have a say, the people we elect have a say, and the people we elect will use their slogans, talking points and embellish the truth to get the most support possible, only to either revert to their true self once in power or be influenced by one reason or another to stray from what they were elected on.

It's friggin' pointless. It may be apathy, and it may be indifference, but at least I'm not playing in to a joke.

**Meatshield718** 15th January 2012, 5:34 am

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
Super Mega King wrote:Indifference and complacence are the enemies of change.

And what does your activism solve? Nothing, you can sit behind your computer all day, and you can go out and protest wall street all day but you're fighting Capitalism at a fight it specializes in. Put in restrictions, it will just cause them to find another way around it.

We don't have a say, the people we elect have a say, and the people we elect will use their slogans, talking points and embellish the truth to get the most support possible, only to either revert to their true self once in power or be influenced by one reason or another to stray from what they were elected on.

It's friggin' pointless. It may be apathy, and it may be indifference, but at least I'm not playing in to a joke.

Jag, I don't even care what your stance is on a subject, it's people that are apathetic that let dumb laws pass, and corrupt politicians continue to run the show. Apathetics are the millions of people that don't even vote, and let others decide their fate.

I hate people that give up, they are the real problem.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:36 am

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
Super Mega King wrote:Indifference and complacence are the enemies of change.

And what does your activism solve? Nothing, you can sit behind your computer all day, and you can go out and protest wall street all day but you're fighting Capitalism at a fight it specializes in. Put in restrictions, it will just cause them to find another way around it.

We don't have a say, the people we elect have a say, and the people we elect will use their slogans, talking points and embellish the truth to get the most support possible, only to either revert to their true self once in power or be influenced by one reason or another to stray from what they were elected on.

It's friggin' pointless. It may be apathy, and it may be indifference, but at least I'm not playing in to a joke.

And what does your resignation do? It approves a system that may need changing, may be corrupt or broken. By saying, "Well, what's the point?", the chance of real change decreases. No change can happen with that mentality.

Using your soldier analogy: I would rather being a soldier and die fighting for change than be a soldier and die fighting under a system that I refuse to try to change. Is it not better to die for a cause you believe in?

If you give up, you allow this to happen. You allow the economy to go to hell. You allow politicians to lie and distort the truth. You allow continued corruption, malice, and evil.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:38 am

Let me go ahead and change what I said in the last post.

You don't JUST allow these things to happen. You encourage it.

You encourage evil, malice, hate, and a system that is broken.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 5:43 am

Meatshield718 wrote:
Jagdgeschwader wrote:
Super Mega King wrote:Indifference and complacence are the enemies of change.

And what does your activism solve? Nothing, you can sit behind your computer all day, and you can go out and protest wall street all day but you're fighting Capitalism at a fight it specializes in. Put in restrictions, it will just cause them to find another way around it.

We don't have a say, the people we elect have a say, and the people we elect will use their slogans, talking points and embellish the truth to get the most support possible, only to either revert to their true self once in power or be influenced by one reason or another to stray from what they were elected on.

It's friggin' pointless. It may be apathy, and it may be indifference, but at least I'm not playing in to a joke.

Jag, I don't even care what your stance is on a subject, it's people that are apathetic that let dumb laws pass, and corrupt politicians continue to run the show. Apathetics are the millions of people that don't even vote, and let others decide their fate.

I hate people that give up, they are the real problem.

And it's people that "care" that solve the problem? No, it's people that "care" that run the show. It's people that "care" that get corrupt. It's people that "care" who come up with these scheming plans in the first place. It's people that "care" who elect the politicians, and it's people who "care" who decide the fate.

I've decided to pretty much detach myself from politics. As have a lot of people. Someone who doesn't care isn't shifted from one side to the other. They're done. YOU decide what happens. Besides, you probably wouldn't want my opinion anyway, it may oppose yours and that would slow progress down. Unless you like arguing all day and accomplishing nothing as this country just so loves to do.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:47 am

It's people that "don't care" that allow these sort of things to happen.

I believe the type of mentality you're displaying is a cancer.

I can't really say it more plainly than that, and I won't insult your intelligence by repeating the points I've said before.

It's a cancer.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 5:50 am

Super Mega King wrote:Let me go ahead and change what I said in the last post.

You don't JUST allow these things to happen. You encourage it.

You encourage evil, malice, hate, and a system that is broken.

And you allow it as much as I do by putting these men in place. You encourage just as much. The difference is that you think said person is different then the rest, a cut above the rest, so to speak. When they're just another politician.

I do as I'm told, and when I'm a superior I will command others what I am told.

You may not agree with my philosophy, but my worker philosophy comes with significantly less headaches.

Maybe I'll involve myself when something can change without years of deadlocking and pointless bantering.

**Super Mega King** 15th January 2012, 5:51 am

Enjoy the front lines.

**Jagdgeschwader** 15th January 2012, 6:03 am

Super Mega King wrote:
And what does your resignation do? It approves a system that may need changing, may be corrupt or broken. By saying, "Well, what's the point?", the chance of real change decreases. No change can happen with that mentality.

Using your soldier analogy: I would rather being a soldier and die fighting for change than be a soldier and die fighting under a system that I refuse to try to change. Is it not better to die for a cause you believe in?

If you give up, you allow this to happen. You allow the economy to go to hell. You allow politicians to lie and distort the truth. You allow continued corruption, malice, and evil.

My resignation approves of my disapproval of the "Worst, best system". No good change can happen when a lust for power exists. Here's an Art of War quote for you that makes good sense for the situation:

"The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom."

Fill your system with jewels of the kingdom, and I will involve myself.

I allow this to happen only by the fact I never had a chance in the first place. The difference is that I realized it beforehand. I weighed my options, and it was best to not involve myself in a conflict there was no chance of winning.

Super Mega King wrote:Enjoy the front lines.

"Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate."

"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight, even though the ruler forbid it; if fighting will not result in victory, then you must not fight even at the ruler's bidding."

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