All bout america

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
Again, by your example we might as well legalize all controlled substances since that would end the cartel right? No more business for them and the genocide stops!

That's not how things work my friend. And I will associate the violence with these drugs because that's what they cause. Directly or indirectly.

.................we are not talking about other substances (those are waaaaay worse then other drugs) lol. Keep it weed related please!

AND IT CAUSES VIOLENCE BECAUSE IT IS CURRENTLY RUN BY CRIMINALS. please refer to my older posts

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Explain america yet ?

Alright, i'm going to be honest. I had a very long (the usual) post typed out, and my comp crapped out on me, and I lost it. Frusteration aside, on the bright side, most of my points have already been addressed, although my response addressing each of your posts was lost (but honestly, you guys could of figured out what I would've said anyways).

I will leave with this link to an article study that came out today though (was included in the long post). I won't explain how it connects again, but interpret it for yourself:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/06/us-drugs-study-idUSTRE7355PT20110406

mboddz751 wrote:

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
Again, by your example we might as well legalize all controlled substances since that would end the cartel right? No more business for them and the genocide stops!

That's not how things work my friend. And I will associate the violence with these drugs because that's what they cause. Directly or indirectly.

.................we are not talking about other substances (those are waaaaay worse then other drugs) lol. Keep it weed related please!

AND IT CAUSES VIOLENCE BECAUSE IT IS CURRENTLY RUN BY CRIMINALS. please refer to my older posts

I'm sorry you're not catching the point at all. Your marijuana purchase is connected to sale of other drugs. They are all connected. That's why I'm generally for banning tobacco as well. Even if marijuana is legalized, it still is a gateway drug to progressively worse drugs. You might as well legalize them all! That way, you don't injure cartels, you get rid of them!

Oh wait a minute, they smuggle people in to.
Let's just get rid of everything and be EARTH. A nation of one!!!!

Masta Shef wrote:It's pretty black & white to me. If you want to smoke, smoke. It's your choice just like it is to do anything. The same laws applying to alcohol/cigarettes should apply to marijuana, i.e. drinking and driving, no smoking within x amount of feet/yards of a public building.

Mexico on the other hand is like I said, a shithole. Especially within the last 5 or so years. The crime is so out of hand that their military has to do the job of the law enforcement. If you pay any attention to gun news too you probably also know that they blame the U.S. for all of their gun crime. So contrary to what you say the Mexican government is not "responsible".

P.S. Jag, find where I said that if marijuana was legalized that drug cartels would be involved.

Sure, if you want to smoke, go ahead. I don't care what you do in your house or to yourself. But when you start contributing to other people that have nothing to do with this being injured and killed, then that's a problem. This is what I've been saying the entire time.

Mexico is in trouble and they're on their last line of defense. They don't have such a prosperous country such as we do and don't get to have the privilege of living safe lives.
Yes I'm aware they blame us for their gun crime. Which just shows me they're desperate. But if we were in that situation, we'd probably be throwing out accusations everywhere as well. Luckily, we're not.

Brotip: Legalize or not shit is gonna be the same. If its legalize here it might get tax like cigarettes are right now and the price of marijuana will continue to go up due to taxes.

Like people do here for cigarettes, get it from across the border because it is cheaper. Cartels are just going to keep their prices down and keep getting money so they can kill and carbomb one another. So legalization sounds logical there is only going to be short-term damage.

Now you're catching it.

The southern border is the first and last line of defense to stopping these drug runners and personnel smugglers which is a poison to our society. (NOT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS) If we're going to stand up to our ideals and values, in an ideal position economically I would be for enforcing border security ten fold and assisting Mexico with this plague.

The only people I can imagine being against it would be the people getting their drugs from these people.
Also, read post again since I added to it.

And Black Snow, there's always going to be underground operations. That doesn't mean we shouldn't commit our best efforts to eradicating it.

EDIT: Shef erased his post or something, I don't see it anymore.

Jagdgeschwader wrote:If we're going to stand up to our ideals and values, in an ideal position economically I would be for enforcing border security ten fold and assisting Mexico with this plague.

Mexico has been asking for help we gave it to them. We have send drones deep into Mexico and found import information. There has been talk (in my town) of plans to put tanks on the border. We do include some military involvement from near by bases to help patrol the border.

We also lost an ICE agent and the other barely survived.
Also many U.S. lives were lost...

Jagdgeschwader wrote:
EDIT: Shef erased his post or something, I don't see it anymore.

I was making fun of how repetitive and off topic you were/are making this, but I erased it cuz I figure nobody on UX understands my sarcasm and would reply to it as if it was serious.

More like sarcasm on the internet always fails.

I don't know how well you understand debates but an argument is crippled if it's limited to only the very base subject. You're just oblivious if you don't think these cartels have a very large part of drug trafficking in this country which is where you get your marijuana. (Relatively speaking.)

Black Snow than you should know exactly what I'm talking about. Also I'm talking NATO support on a large scale.

I typed something up but I just deleted it. I'm at a loss for words about how ignorant you are.

Jagdgeschwader wrote:Now you're catching it.

The southern border is the first and last line of defense to stopping these drug runners and personnel smugglers which is a poison to our society. (NOT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS) If we're going to stand up to our ideals and values, in an ideal position economically I would be for enforcing border security ten fold and assisting Mexico with this plague.

The only people I can imagine being against it would be the people getting their drugs from these people.
Also, read post again since I added to it.

And Black Snow, there's always going to be underground operations. That doesn't mean we shouldn't commit our best efforts to eradicating it.

EDIT: Shef erased his post or something, I don't see it anymore.

i bet you voted for George bush

but seriously stop beating around the bush, you say not to legalize it but then you say that the cartels won't stop selling it and committing crimes, how do we fix this? fight an endless war and spend billions while the us is already spending that much on military expenses? why bother trying so hard to get rid of marijuana and just giving the "cartels" a reason to fight for it, when we could use the money ourselves? if it was made legal, the fucking cartels would be slowed down dramatically. but you won't listen to anyone elses ideas. its not the cartels, its us, we're the ones buying it from them because its illegal to grow in america..

I would vote for bush. Both times.

But steveeee your wrong. The prices here for marijuana would be increased here in the U.S. Yeah its legal but the price might just drive people back to buying from the cartel who will eventually realize they can lower there price and still make money. Like I said earlier: Legalize or not, the Cartel is still going to find a way to make money.

Lets keep it friendly and not get in each others face about this. It's a friendly debate. Just express your opinion and keep in mind that no matter what you say/do on this topic will change anything in the slightest.

Jagdgeschwader wrote:

Made in Finland wrote:And as far as I know, the lung-related diseases marijuana cause are just because you're inhaling smoke.

This goes the same for tobacco. Smoking it is what causes lung cancer. Tobacco itself won't give you cancer, but all of the additives will and so will the smoke it makes.

wat?

That's just retarded. Cigarettes are packed with dangerous chemicals (in order to make the nicotine absorb better, since the amount of nicotine is restricted by law). Marijuana is just a plant.

Natural grown tobacco plants and marijuana plants have the same effect on your lungs. Cigarettes are far more worse.

Meatshield718 wrote:Also, you wouldn't want to smoke a joint if you are having trouble with cancer. THC has shown some cancer fighting properties, but it would be medically applied outside of the actual plant, rather than smoking it. The reason why it could be used to stop cancer is because it can kill off weak or dysfunctional cells that could become cancerous. It is no cure for a cancerous cell.

That's exactly what I've been saying. :|I already mentioned that the THC can be extracted from the plant and it can be administered without smoking anything. And I never said it'll cure cancer, I said it kills cancer cells. So it can kill early cancer or kill the cells before you get a cancer at all. There's no acute cure for cancer yet.

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And as for the drug cartels, their biggest income is from marijuana. Legalizing marijuana would mean there's no reason to buy it from the cartel, crippling them financially.

Going back to jag's point a while ago, I think he is trying to say more: We wouldn't have a cartel problem in the first place if we didn't have so many Americans (and as mentioned in that article I posted, teens) addicted to the cursed thing. This is what I call thinking outside the box. Oh no! The cartel is being violent to sell drugs accross the border! Arguement 1: Legalize weed so crime will go down (in respect to the cartel), crippling them financially. Option 2: The US gets off the drug(s), cartel dies off (noone wants to buy anymore), and healthcare costs plumet. Oh course, this would never happen, since to many people love the crap so much.

The difference between me and others that support legalization is that I reluctantly support it. Since the ideal situation is no longer realistic, we'll have to go with the nex best thing. It's what's right vs. what works (I think I said this before). Legalizing weed is imo completely wrong and a backwards move, but, we need the money in the US, and much of America is hooked. At this point, it isn't "how are we going to break Americas drug addiction problem?", but rather just "who is going to be the one selling it". The cartel or us? Might as well be us, but either way, it is either a bad choice or a worse choice.

And to address one point: Yes cigarettes are worse for you, but that doesn't mean marijuana is golden. It is still bad on your lungs, and the fact that it can be used to kill cancer cells, when the weed itself gave you cancer in the first place, is just such a backward way of thinking it's not even funny. Just an excuse for users to just keep using, that's how I see it.

(sorry if parts of this post are repetitive; I can't remember what got deleted with the 2nd post, and what didn't)

eaustinn36 wrote:And to address one point: Yes cigarettes are worse for you, but that doesn't mean marijuana is golden. It is still bad on your lungs, and the fact that it can be used to kill cancer cells, when the weed itself gave you cancer in the first place, is just such a backward way of thinking it's not even funny. Just an excuse for users to just keep using, that's how I see it.

You anger me....

Tophat 44 wrote:

eaustinn36 wrote:And to address one point: Yes cigarettes are worse for you, but that doesn't mean marijuana is golden. It is still bad on your lungs, and the fact that it can be used to kill cancer cells, when the weed itself gave you cancer in the first place, is just such a backward way of thinking it's not even funny. Just an excuse for users to just keep using, that's how I see it.

You anger me....

Why?

Tophat 44 wrote:You anger me....

Explain please. This is a debate after all, and one sentence doesn't really help much.

(keep your points organized though, this is a respectable debate. There will be no trolling, flaming, insulting, or degading any members beyond political arguements)

there hasn't been a single confirmed case of cancer caused by weed austinn...................

btw why do you hate it so much that you refer to it as the accursed thing?

Does anyone remember the candy cigarettes made out of sugar? Or the gum that was wrapped in paper that looked like a cigarette? Sorry, slightly off topic.

Edit response to mboddz: When I smoked I understood it was unhealthy, I didn't rationalize against it. Although it definitely isn't "accursed". ITS NOT THAT BAD. Yeah its smoke, yeah its not supposed to be in your body, yeah if you over use it, its going to impact your health. Occasional use won't kill you though. Besides, who wants to live to be like 100 anyway, all you do is shit your pants and write memoirs.

Yea, I like bubble gum cigars, they make me feel like Bender.

eaustinn36 wrote:The difference between me and others that support legalization is that I reluctantly support it. Since the ideal situation is no longer realistic, we'll have to go with the nex best thing. It's what's right vs. what works (I think I said this before).

Respect for that. I don't think people understand how hard thinking like that can be. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that the ideal situation is impossible to achieve, or at least would be too hard and expensive to accomplish.

Anyway yeah, this discussion is going in circles. The whole cartel thing should be discussed further, but I think we're done with health effects? Bottom line being, weed is unhealthy, but not too unhealthy to be legalized.

andr_00_ew wrote:Does anyone remember the candy cigarettes made out of sugar? Or the gum that was wrapped in paper that looked like a cigarette? Sorry, slightly off topic.

No, but we had chocolate cigarettes. They came in a pack, which was a little smaller than a regular cigarette pack is, and they were slightly smaller than the real thing. It was just chocolate sticks wrapped in paper that looked like a cigarette (orange filter section etc.).

They were banned, for having a bad influence on children and making them want to smoke real cigarettes in the future. Didn't really mind that part, but what pissed me off (and every other Finn too) was that the Licorice Pipe was supposed to be banned too. None of you probably know about them, but it's a traditional candy since, I dunno, the pre-WWII? Everyone was against it, so it wasn't banned, while chocolate cigarettes were. It sounds stupid, but it's a tradition and I'm happy it wasn't banned.

@Mboddz - Hmmm... not buying it. No way inhaling that kind of smoke is not cancerous. I think it's about time I looked into this more....


Oh wait a minute! It appears your sources are outdated. I knew that kind of counter-logic didn't make sense. So, it weed cancerous? How about yes.

Article Jan 19th, 2011: http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

Let's keep going...

Article 2: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm

And here's an article from 2 months ago: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-teenage-mind/201102/does-marijuana-cause-cancer

Should I keep going?

To be fair, I looks at some articles saying the opposite.. then I looked at the dates: all outdated.

I rest my case.

Hmmm, I'm not sure to who you're referring with that post?

But if it's to me, about weed's health effects, then here's my current bottom line: I know the smoke marijuana produces is dangerous, and I've not said it's the smoke that cured anything, quite the contrary. THC is the substance which has good health effects, everything else about marijuana is either neutral or dangerous. THC can be extracted from marijuana, and administered without smoking anything.

So yeah, smoking marijuana isn't really going to cure anything because it's more toxic than healthy (unless you have Alzheimer, or HIV, or other already severe medical condition that needs a less-dangerous toxin to be treated). There's really no positive effects on civil usage either.

Thanks for this discussion, it has changed my points of view a little, but I really think it's over now, or what say you?

http://marijuanavaporizer.com/vaporizer-benefits.html

theres that ^ and all the shit you can put THC into

brownies
cookies
gum
lip balm
water
candy

that way no smoke enters your lungs and that pretty much takes away the carcinogens or "cancer causing" chemicals or whatever and lowers the health risk dramatically