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All bout america

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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 20th March 2011, 11:31 pm

Just going to say right now, military spending is fine. That chart is misleading because I guarantee you that Russia and China have extremely high military spending budgets as well, they just aren't completely honest with their military spending like we are.

For instance, Russia is undergoing serious modernization of their military right now (i.e. replacing Mi24s with Mi28s and T80s with T90s) and also have a military 21,500,000 soldiers large (counting reserves) where as the US has 3,000,000 counting reserves. Let's also not forget the fact that Russia and the US are still having an arms race in the way of Russia withdrawing from the CFE Treaty and the US withdrawing from it's own ABM treaty partly because of Russian and Chinese development of increasingly longer range distance ICBMs.
Don't mean to sound like a Cold War communist hater (Actually, I do) but I don't trust those Chinese with their defense spending. They don't let a quarter of their equipment be seen to the public anyway.

Also, health care system is fine. We must remember that corporate greed is the beating heart of the US and it's the reason why we've been so powerful for so long. Everyone likes to say "Oh, the US is a crumbling empire and blah blah blah" but really how far did the Great Recession set us back? From 14,000 on the Dow to 8,000? So we lived in 2006 for 18 months? Don't get me wrong, unemployment went to around 11% if I remember correctly but it's nowhere near what we've endured.

And on people hating on our allies (France) it's not proper etiquette to be mean to your friends in the 'We Hate Communists' club. Or NATO, because it sounds cooler.
So what have we learned?
Russia and China are not very honest with their defense spending, and we shouldn't hate our friends.
So it's a classic case of West vs. East, and nobody here is from Russia or China, so let's be friends!
Maybe we need a WWIII against Russia or China, that will unite us all. Oh, wait a minute, Russian and Chinese military doctrine states the 'Unlimited use of nuclear weapons in the case of any attack from a world power'
So they can do whatever they want. Because if we say 'Hey, that ain't cool' they say 'what are you going to do about it? We'll press the blow shit up button.'

And then you've got the fact that the Russian Federation and the PRC don't like each other and are only allies because they live next to each other.
So now we've got a three way Cold War...

So have you guys heard? We're invading Libya! Well actually we're just having twenty French Rafales flying over Libya, but honestly they're going to need more. Well, since NATO is around still, that means everyone will have to help in someway, but I hear we're shooting tomahawks at SA-6 Gainfuls. I think the government will be ousted in...a month tops.

Would also like to point out that as of January 2011, the US still has the largest economy in the world. Made from the blood, sweat and toil of our ancestors and being thrown away by idiot CEOs who throw the work to China. China now has the 2nd largest economy in the world, and WE'RE FUNDING IT. Total bullshit if you ask me, we need those jobs back immediately, and as soon as we do, I guarantee you 75% of China's military will go to rot on a deserted airfield. It's not like the Soviets, they aren't living on borrowed time all the time (that's redundant) and we can't out GDP them if our GDP is theirs!


Last edited by Jagdgeschwader on 20th March 2011, 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: All bout america

Post  BLACK SNOW 13 on 20th March 2011, 11:43 pm

I don't know who the fuck you are but that was a great read.
+infinity!
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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 20th March 2011, 11:49 pm

It's just how things ought to be.
I don't know who said 'I'm only a conservative because I'm joining the military and own a gun' or something rather but that had to be the POOREST representation of the Republican party I've ever seen.


Last edited by Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 12:02 am

Didn't want to jump back into this, but the US armed forces give soldiers a SHIT TON of benefits. They pay for food, housing, clothing, and anything else that you need while serving. In addition, they actually pay you. So you don't pay for almost everything, while you get paid. Not to mention that fat $85,000 check you get after you get discharged to pay for any 4 year state college you get into. That's even for the shortest enlistment. So if anything, the military is helping people. That's a major reason why our spending is so high, because we pay so much for every single person. In a way its a cycle, spend a lot, get most of it back. Do you see other countries on that list doing anything similar? In some of those countries its a requirement to serve and you get almost nothing for it. Its not like our military is just burning the money they get. Yes they make a lot of weapons, yes they sell most of them. Its been like this FOREVER. We've always overproduced and sold to other countries, in WW2 all allies basically used were American weapons, and we made bank because of it.

So basically, leave the military alone.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 12:03 am

I don't see how you can say things like "leave the military alone" when we are facing the current economic downfall we are and are so far in debt. We spend an inordinate amount of money on defense.

In fact, I'm not real political but that sounds kind of silly.

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Re: All bout america

Post  mboddz751 on 21st March 2011, 12:06 am

Super Mega King wrote:I don't see how you can say things like "leave the military alone" when we are facing the current economic downfall we are and are so far in debt. We spend an inordinate amount of money on defense.

In fact, I'm not real political but that sounds kind of silly.

agreed. We can't live in fear of others and break our bank to flaunt our muscles to other countries.


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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 12:06 am

Correction on your statement, equipment wise, practically ALL military spending is domestic because of most of our equipment being made in the US. For instance, Abrams tanks are made by Chrysler Defense, AR15s are a give in, Apaches are made by General Electric and Boeing Defense (previously McDonnell Douglas) so, it is a pretty self-sufficient system.
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Re: All bout america

Post  mboddz751 on 21st March 2011, 12:10 am

Jagdgeschwader wrote:Correction on your statement, equipment wise, practically ALL military spending is domestic because of most of our equipment being made in the US. For instance, Abrams tanks are made by Chrysler Defense, AR15s are a give in, Apaches are made by General Electric and Boeing Defense (previously McDonnell Douglas) so, it is a pretty self-sufficient system.

the budget we spend on military could be diverted to other essentials that our contributing to the downfall of our country. Like rising poverty, lack of education, and many other things. I find it completely ignorant that we push so much money in to defense but ignore other plagues on the average american.

and jag. i am disgusted that you essentially just stated that greed is good. That is what widens the financial gap and exploits the common worker. 50% of this country's wealth goes to the top 10% of the financial ladder. And also i find it pitiful and andrew is saying lets "make bank" off of massive death tolls and world conflicts.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 12:19 am

Did I say greed was good? Morally, no. Financially? Yes if used correctly.
Listen, I'm no bigshot, and I'm not defending some idiot CEO who shipped our work out to China. I'm a common worker, no bigger a factor than you probably. I just realize that corporations and big business are what run the country. It's because of those corporations and big businesses why you get to enjoy your freedoms in a country so generous such as this. 50%? Don't be nice, 98% of the wealth goes to the top 5% of the country. But it's the top 5% of the country that knows how to spend it (Should anyway, this breed of big business just ships it to China, emphasizing my 'used correctly' annotation), are you saying that spreading the wealth equally to people who know nothing of big business, or in the extreme, can't even speak ENGLISH is a good thing?

And Mboddz, if we're going to be the leading superpower in the world, we ought to have a military worthy of defending it. Like I said before, don't trust those charts, statistics don't lie, but statisticians do.
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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 12:21 am

Jagdgeschwader wrote:Did I say greed was good? Morally, no. Financially? Yes if used correctly.
Listen, I'm no bigshot, and I'm not defending some idiot CEO who shipped our work out to China. I'm a common worker, no bigger a factor than you probably. I just realize that corporations and big business are what run the country. It's because of those corporations and big businesses why you get to enjoy your freedoms in a country so generous such as this. 50%? Don't be nice, 98% of the wealth goes to the top 5% of the country. But it's the top 5% of the country that knows how to spend it (Should anyway, this breed of big business just ships it to China, emphasizing my 'used correctly' annotation), are you saying that spreading the wealth equally to people who know nothing of big business, or in the extreme, can't even speak ENGLISH is a good thing?

And Mboddz, if we're going to be the leading superpower in the world, we ought to have a military worthy of defending it. Like I said before, don't trust those charts, statistics don't lie, but statisticians do.
Sad but true
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 12:28 am

If you believe widening the social classes is a positive factor, I am convinced you have not taken any type of advanced history course.

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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 12:30 am

I didn't say that at all. As long as we've been an industrial power, that's how it's ALWAYS BEEN. From the 1880s to now, it's the top 5% that control the wealth. They made us an industrial power, they gave us the benefits we enjoy and take for granted so much today.
It's ok to have the Lao Tzu's in the world, don't get me wrong.
But I believe in having the Sun Tzu's come first.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 12:46 am

The way it's always been does not make it good at all.

Case in point: French revolution. Or the Union Labor strikes of the early 20th century.

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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 12:53 am

You make a good point, I can see your side of the argument as well. No system is perfect, there's always going to be people who oppose it. But I think we can both agree that since the 1880s it's always been like this, and since the 1880s, we've been generally successful as a nation. Minus the Great Depression, which was caused by a number of things, namely overproduction.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 12:55 am

The Great Depression wasn't the only depression though. We've had multiple mini depressions (similar to the one we're one) called 'panics'.

I agree that it's the way we've always been, but I'd argue that it's unjust. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. That's the American mantra.

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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 1:02 am

If it's unjust is arguable. Like I said, I'm not rich, I'm not poor though either. Widening social classes...not a good thing. That's what causes revolutions, but people need to know their place as well. The fact of the matter is that the middle class is the whole reason why the rich can make our country great, but we can't petty ourselves with propping up the middle class, because the reward is within itself. We work, and we get to enjoy our freedoms of our generous country. Is it perfect? No, I have debt issues, sometimes I have worse problems, but I deal with it knowing that if it weren't for the strategically greedy rich, it would be a lot worse.
A lot worse.
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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 1:05 am

That feels about right though. Life isn't fair, not everyone gets born into a wealthy family. Some people have more advantages then others, no matter how much you redistribute the wealth that will always stay true. Luck is also a factor.

People most of the time earned their money, they should be able to keep it.

Some people stay poor some people stay rich.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 1:10 am

andr_00_ew wrote:That feels about right though. Life isn't fair, not everyone gets born into a wealthy family. Some people have more advantages then others, no matter how much you redistribute the wealth that will always stay true. Luck is also a factor.

People most of the time earned their money, they should be able to keep it.

Some people stay poor some people stay rich.

Let me give a lesson from industrial tycoon Andrew Carnegie, arguably one of the richest Americans of all time. He believed in a system where all men were obligated to...

1.) Spend the first third of their life learning all they can.
2.) Spend the second third of their life gaining all the profit they can.
3.) Spend the last third of their life giving it away.

Sure, you earned your money, but there is such a thing as too much money for one man. Or one family, for that matter.

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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 1:12 am

Giving it away, keeping, spending or burning it is the person's choice, not anyone else.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Jagdgeschwader on 21st March 2011, 1:15 am

Ah...Andrew Carnegie.
Great man who helped shape our country into the industrial power.
And also, not arguably, one of the richest Americans. Him with John Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan pretty much made the first stepping stones to our wealth.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 1:18 am

andr_00_ew wrote:Giving it away, keeping, spending or burning it is the person's choice, not anyone else.

I can tell you were born into wealth.

The wealthy have an inordinate amount of money. Money that could be best put elsewhere to improve the quality of life for many rather than few.

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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 1:21 am

Actually I was not. Military family, middle class. Brother served, father serving. If I was to get like 5 million right now, I would not know what to do with it. Obviously I'd donate a good bit of it. I'm just saying that some people are so greedy that they would keep it to themselves, I never said I would do so.
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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 1:22 am

Sorry for double post, everyone has the freedom to do what they want with their money, theirs nothing anyone can say or do to change that.
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Re: All bout america

Post  Super Mega King on 21st March 2011, 1:23 am

But you aren't saying that some people are greedy. You're saying that those that earned such a high amount of wealth should be able to choose what to do with it. To a certain point, that is true, but such a high amount of wealth could be used to improve the lives of impoverish, the education system, health care, and even to the military (not that I condone this particular course of action at all).

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Re: All bout america

Post  andrew on 21st March 2011, 1:25 am

What you just said, is basically what I just said but you listed some things you can do with money. I said " people can do what they want with their money." You said, people can help the impoverished etc. Isn't that the choice of the person WITH the money? If they want to do any of the listed things.

edit: Yes it is greed, only generous people would donate large sums of money, and get no benefit from it.
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Re: All bout america

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