Re: Skyrim(General thread)

[Desert Sleepy]

See, I disagree, I believe every city in Cyrodiil is larger than every city in Skyrim, bar none.

Even so, I still thought the cities in Cyrodiil were much too small for supposedly the most populated province in the series. To me, the ones in Skyrim seem to have more flavor. The ones in Oblivion, even when it was new, mostly felt a bit bland to me, except maybe Anvil and Skingrad.

[Super Mega King]

I agree that the Skyrim cities have more flavor, but I wish they had more NPCs to interact with.

[Super Mega King]

It's been a few months. What's everyone's thoughts on Skyrim still? I posted my thoughts above and still basically stand by that. I believe the greatest problem with it is the existence of smithing. Sure, someone once told me, I could ignore smithing entirely, but should I have to completely ignore a game's feature to get enjoyment out of it?

What are your thoughts?

[Dexta117]

I am still loving the game and finding new things every day e.g. I walked into Falkreath and into the general goods store, some guy walked past me and said a racist comment because I am a Dark Elf, I didn't like that very much so I followed him to the saw mill and hid behind some rocks, I waited until he was alone and I could not be seen, I killed him. I was heading towards another main city to do a quest and some hired thugs jumped out and started attacking me so I killed them and while looting their bodies found a letter from the owner of the general goods store in Falkreath saying that he would pay them to kill me fore murdering his brother. The only time this has kind of happened to me was some Dark Brotherhood asshole was hired to kill me right after fighting the first dragon just outside of Winterhold, he ended up like the hired thugs.

[oO Coggy Oo]

Haven't played in a while, but still have quite a few side quests to complete. Also, just found this video of Skyrim on the PC.

It's worth watching:

[Jagdgeschwader]

It's been a few months. What's everyone's thoughts on Skyrim still? I posted my thoughts above and still basically stand by that. I believe the greatest problem with it is the existence of smithing. Sure, someone once told me, I could ignore smithing entirely, but should I have to completely ignore a game's feature to get enjoyment out of it?

What are your thoughts?

I remember because I told you that, and my advice to you is that it is a single player game, and there have been things in Fallout that I particularly don't like and no offense, but this is what you do.

Get over it.

It's really not that big of a deal, and if you ask me, it's only broken if you abuse it by making iron daggers and leather bracers 200 fold. If you use it normally like you're supposed to, it will level up slowly.

Skyrim in my opinion is one of my favorite games, and I hope Fallout 4 takes many lessons from it. Bethesda is getting good at scaring their players, and this can be employed in Fallout 4 which takes place in a land of horror.

[Super Mega King]

It's been a few months. What's everyone's thoughts on Skyrim still? I posted my thoughts above and still basically stand by that. I believe the greatest problem with it is the existence of smithing. Sure, someone once told me, I could ignore smithing entirely, but should I have to completely ignore a game's feature to get enjoyment out of it?

What are your thoughts?

I remember because I told you that, and my advice to you is that it is a single player game, and there have been things in Fallout that I particularly don't like and no offense, but this is what you do.

Get over it.

It's really not that big of a deal, and if you ask me, it's only broken if you abuse it by making iron daggers and leather bracers 200 fold. If you use it normally like you're supposed to, it will level up slowly.

Skyrim in my opinion is one of my favorite games, and I hope Fallout 4 takes many lessons from it. Bethesda is getting good at scaring their players, and this can be employed in Fallout 4 which takes place in a land of horror.

I'm not saying Skyrim isn't a good game, so don't get me wrong here.

However, the answer "just don't do this" isn't an answer at all. I shouldn't have to literally avoid features to make it not a big deal. Using it normally? Who says what's normal? Isn't the point of an RPG to get stronger and better, and you do that by practicing and improving your skills? Just because you choose to do it at a gradual pace doesn't mean that's any more normal.

Anyway, "get over it" is a very stupid attitude; if you become complacent with things that need to be fixed in videogames, developers will just continue to make it the way it is. Sure, Skyrim's good, but it can be better, as can any videogame.

[eegleindia]

Anyway, "get over it" is a very stupid attitude; if you become complacent with things that need to be fixed in videogames, developers will just continue to make it the way it is.

Ladies and gentlemen, it seems we've found the problem with recent games.

[Super Mega King]

I mean, the major guard against boosting in RPGs is that a lot of the time it takes monotonous effort. Sure, I can level up my heavy armor in Oblivion to max really easily by standing in one place getting hit by rats, but that takes so much time and is boring. Leveling up smithing in Skyrim is so easy that you'll likely overlevel accidentally and that you have to go out of your way to gradually do it.

Besides, the sheer existence of the smithing system takes away from other features of the game. The quest rewards and dungeon loot are really useless because I can just make the armor that I find with less effort.

Man, I could go on, but I'm sounding like a broken record.

[Jagdgeschwader]

However, the answer "just don't do this" isn't an answer at all. I shouldn't have to literally avoid features to make it not a big deal. Using it normally? Who says what's normal? Isn't the point of an RPG to get stronger and better, and you do that by practicing and improving your skills? Just because you choose to do it at a gradual pace doesn't mean that's any more normal.

And what attitude is to get "stronger and better, by any means necessary"? By that logic, the skill sneaking is broken because you can level it up by pinning your controller against the wall behind the blind guy in the white watch cavern and leaving it while you go to work. To anyone that doesn't know, this will increase your sneak to 100 in a few hours. All you need to do is go to school or work and there you go.

Apparently, this is broken, because it is too easy. So I think this needs to be taken out of the game.

I can just beat Hadvar to death for an hour before leaving for Skyrim and level up my one handed/two handed/block/all of these and get a super high level in these skills before even leaving the first area. This needs to be taken out, it's too easy.

You see how silly that sounds?

Who say's what's normal? What do you think is normal? Now you're just coming up with reasons why it is out of place. Newsflash, if you use smithing as you go, and not "Alright, buy 50 iron ingots, buy 50 leather, turn into leather strips, alright, let's boost!" then smithing will level with your character. Just because you know how to take advantage of something, doesn't mean you should. If I really wanted to, I could manipulate a character in just a day of work and have a character that would only be attainable in real time gameplay possibly hundreds of hours into the game. But I don't, because that is so stupid it isn't funny.

You can take advantage of smithing, or you can take control of yourself and not make 10000 iron daggers. You know well that crafting iron daggers like an assembly line in seconds isn't normal, and don't even kid yourself by saying it is. You use it as you go, improving weapons as needed or crafting weapons as needed, or you know what? You could even role-play it. Instead of making 10000 iron daggers, you could go up in size. Eventually making swords, battle axes, war axes, greatswords, et cetera. By that logic, you really are becoming better at smithing because you're practicing making weapons of all types.

Super, it is really within yourself not to take advantage of a system. I believe I remember asking you, "How would you do smithing?", you said "Simple, take it out of the game,"

This is as pointless as an answer as "Get over it," Skyrim is a pseudo-medieval type game. You should be able to be a smith if you want to and craft your own weapons, and fletch as well. For some reason, fletching isn't in the game and that kind of saddens me a bit.

[Super Mega King]

And what attitude is to get "stronger and better, by any means necessary"? By that logic, the skill sneaking is broken because you can level it up by pinning your controller against the wall behind the blind guy in the white watch cavern and leaving it while you go to work. To anyone that doesn't know, this will increase your sneak to 100 in a few hours. All you need to do is go to school or work and there you go.

Apparently, this is broken, because it is too easy. So I think this needs to be taken out of the game.

I can just beat Hadvar to death for an hour before leaving for Skyrim and level up my one handed/two handed/block/all of these and get a super high level in these skills before even leaving the first area. This needs to be taken out, it's too easy.

Yes, these things should be fixed. I'm glad you see my point of view. They are easily exploitable and should be fixed! It's really that simple. Don't get so narrow-minded that "fixing" means "take it out of the game." If you're okay with never criticizing a thing you love (and I love Skyrim) and always being okay with just dealing and ignoring all the bad features, then go play Call of Duty. They're simple games, and they'll never change.

However, for the most part, I address this as these are things that are monotonous and boring while most people accidentally break Smithing.

Who say's what's normal? What do you think is normal? Now you're just coming up with reasons why it is out of place. Newsflash, if you use smithing as you go, and not "Alright, buy 50 iron ingots, buy 50 leather, turn into leather strips, alright, let's boost!" then smithing will level with your character. Just because you know how to take advantage of something, doesn't mean you should. If I really wanted to, I could manipulate a character in just a day of work and have a character that would only be attainable in real time gameplay possibly hundreds of hours into the game. But I don't, because that is so stupid it isn't funny.

As I point out below, I think you're the one coming up with reasons why it's IN place.

It's not that I know how to take advantage of something; it's that it's so easy to do it's not even funny. I literally broke the system without being aware of what I was doing until it was done, and I know for a fact I'm not alone here.

You can take advantage of smithing, or you can take control of yourself and not make 10000 iron daggers. You know well that crafting iron daggers like an assembly line in seconds isn't normal, and don't even kid yourself by saying it is. You use it as you go, improving weapons as needed or crafting weapons as needed, or you know what? You could even role-play it. Instead of making 10000 iron daggers, you could go up in size. Eventually making swords, battle axes, war axes, greatswords, et cetera. By that logic, you really are becoming better at smithing because you're practicing making weapons of all types.

Super, it is really within yourself not to take advantage of a system. I believe I remember asking you, "How would you do smithing?", you said "Simple, take it out of the game,"

This is as pointless as an answer as "Get over it," Skyrim is a pseudo-medieval type game. You should be able to be a smith if you want to and craft your own weapons, and fletch as well. For some reason, fletching isn't in the game and that kind of saddens me a bit.

And yes, I said take it out for a few reasons, and I've already said why a million times. It ruins the reward/dungeon looting system, is too easy, makes the game too easy, etc etc. What was ever wrong with just repairing the weapons you find or buy? Don't even start on me with that "this is a medieval game you should be able to..." Wasn't it you that I agreed with in the EA topic who said that realism can be a very bad thing? Realism can be absolutely awful in video games and you're literally grasping at straws to defend a system you can't admit is broken.

[Desert Sleepy]

I haven't really had any problem with smithing. I don't find it very fun, and I usually don't have a lot of ingots on me. The only smithing I really do is making jewelry, since I can usually just sell that for a ton of money. Don't you have to be at at least like 70 Smithing skill to make anything better than Dwemer stuff? Usually the stuff I Smith of enchant is just boring, not very valuable stuff that I either throw away because it isn't worth it's weight or sell. I find much better stuff in dungeons and from quests.

And I think I agree with Jagdgeschwader, if what he's saying is that Smithing only becomes a problem if you decide to make it one. It's a single-player game, so if you dislike the over-easiness of smithing, don't use it. It hardly seems like a big deal. Just pretend you bought the generic brand equivalent of Skyrim, and it for some reason comes without smithing. As for the fact that you shouldn't have to avoid it, you don't. You just have to not find it. It's not as though smithing is ever needed or ever seeks you out. Avoiding it isn't a big deal if you don't like the way it affects the game. A much, much easier alternative to boosting through smithing is boosting through alteration. You can just do the spell "Muffle" a couple hundred times, and before you know it, some asshole wizard is attacking you with fireballs and kicking your ass because all your other skills are disproportionately low compared to your 85 in alteration.

A much bigger problem for me is the fact that you can basically be everyone at once, like in Oblivion. In Oblivion you could be the leader of the fighters guild, the leader of the mages guild, the leader of the dark brotherhood, the leader of the thieves guild, the leader of the knights of the nine, the guy who found every daedric artifact and saved Cyrodil and became Sheogorath or whatever all at the same time.

Also, the constant dragon attacks get a bit annoying. Sometimes I just want to mind my own business and do whatever I'm doing without having to have a dragon fight every hour or so.

I'd also like more NPCs next game. It seems a tad unbelievable that I can go around Skyrim murdering hundreds of bandits and stormcloaks and forsworn, and then stop by a town that only has like 17 people living in it. I don't care if they have to make it like Fallout and add in the generic worthless NPCs who can't be spoken to at all, I'd just like it to look a little more populated.

Next game ideally for me would take place in Hammerfell since it's supposed to be all about the deserts, and I love deserts. It would also have at least one city that's worth calling a city, meaning about three times the size of any in Skyrim, and with more people.

EDIT: I should like to add, and I'm sure this has been said before, that there are far too many potions. Holy shit, there are potions. When I open my inventory, I'm up to my eyeballs in half-pound, valuable potions the I got by opening some dead guy's urn. The people of Skyrim have a serious obsession with potions.

[Super Mega King]

I agree with a lot of what you say except about Smithing, Sleepy

It's a single-player game, so if you dislike the over-easiness of smithing, don't use it. It hardly seems like a big deal. Just pretend you bought the generic brand equivalent of Skyrim, and it for some reason comes without smithing. As for the fact that you shouldn't have to avoid it, you don't. You just have to not find it. It's not as though smithing is ever needed or ever seeks you out. Avoiding it isn't a big deal if you don't like the way it affects the game.

I can't be the only one that sees "if you don't like it, ignore it" as a really silly answer.

The thing is that I would completely agree with you guys about boosting through smithing if it weren't a simple thing that is found so easily. "Hey, I'm only two levels from the next armor upgrade and none of this quest stuff is good. I think I'll just buy some iron daggers and be on my way"

Harbinger made a really good point on AIM with me when he said the system can be easily fixed if certain items just stopped giving you skill if you smith it too much. Smith 50 iron daggers? No more skill points from them. It's so simple I can't believe I hadn't thought of it earlier and it fixes most of the problems with smithing...

...though I still think the system completely negates quest rewards and dungeon loot.

[Jagdgeschwader]

And yes, I said take it out for a few reasons, and I've already said why a million times. It ruins the reward/dungeon looting system, is too easy, makes the game too easy, etc etc. What was ever wrong with just repairing the weapons you find or buy? Don't even start on me with that "this is a medieval game you should be able to..." Wasn't it you that I agreed with in the EA topic who said that realism can be a very bad thing? Realism can be absolutely awful in video games and you're literally grasping at straws to defend a system you can't admit is broken.

No, I will get on you about that because realism is what sets the bar, but some things go above the bar such as USAS-12 12gauge frag rounds because they turn your weapon into a mini-grenade launcher. This is obviously stupid. Taking out the crafting system in the form of weapons is stupid as shit. They're swords, they're bows, it's a suit of armor, are you telling me I can't craft a suit of armor? Are you telling me that I can't make my own sword? How the hell does everyone else have swords if they can't make them? What the fuck?

I'm not the one grasping at straws, I'm not trying hard at all to make points, you could say that it is effortless to me. Your entire argument depends on somehow you started smithing, and suddenly you just couldn't stop? I COULDN'T STOP TAPPING 'A'! I OVERLEVELED ON ACCIDENT!!!!

Before you told me how to even do that, my smithing skill was one of my lacking skills because I only used it to improve weapons occasionally and make a few suits of armor. If I remember correctly, I was around level 11-12-13, and my smithing was in the low twenties.

If anything, your argument is baseless. Apparently being able to craft something with materials that can be found in the world is broken.

I just can't comprehend how you can't just use smithing as you go, crafting armor as you need it and improving weapons as you need to. I guarantee you that if you do that, you won't have a problem with smithing anymore.

Sleepy, that's Illusion by the way. And if you ask me, that literally almost is broken because "Muffle" will level up Illusion insanely fast.

Another thing that is broken is to get four pieces of clothing that have a "Reduce Alteration by 25%" enchantment and use telekinesis on an object indefinitely. In an hour, you can level up alteration at least fifty or sixty points.

...though I still think the system completely negates quest rewards and dungeon loot.

^
Opinion

[Super Mega King]

By saying "breaking accidentally" perhaps I just left too much up for interpretation and assumed you wouldn't think of me as some moron, guess I was wrong. I, like most people who played this game, was only like one level away from the next smithing upgrade so I bought some iron ingonts (because I had too much money) and smithed some daggers. Whoa, wait, I have a level 20 smithing, and smithing one iron dagger gives me half a level? Right here is where the magic breaks because I am now aware that no matter what I find in the game, I can make it easier with less than five minutes of effort. This is literally a thing that is true. I didn't blatantly press the A button; I did it gradually as much as possible where I left smithing alone until I felt I reached a natural point where I should get new armor and then used the dagger trick to get new armor. As it is, I STILL haven't made dragon armor because of that. It's too easy to do, too convenient, and takes too little time.

And let's talk about realism, because you have a point; why SHOULDN'T I be able to make my own sword? The answer to that is because there are dungeons to explore, quests to conquer, where you can be rewarded swords. In a realistic world we can see this as bothersome because dungeons are dangerous and quests are cumbersome and besides, isn't it much more manly to make my own sword? In a video game though, dungeons and quests are the meat and bones that make the game great. I don't know about you, but once I conquer a dungeon, I like to be rewarded for my efforts, and it is so disheartening to get to the end to find some kind of paltry item because I make my own so much better and easier! Being able to make my own stuff takes away from the fun of exploring to FIND stuff.

Where do we draw the line on realism? Why does my armor and swords no longer degrade? That's a very realistic thing that's been present in TES games for a long time. Why can I fast travel, become the master of all guilds, master literally every skill set, etc.? Isn't that unrealistic? And if it's not, why am I the only person that does that ever? Why does no one else (AI that is) ever try to become the masters at anything? Isn't that unrealistic? Don't even get me started on the list of things that I should be able to do, if realism persists.

Jag, you are literally proving my point by listing all these skills that can be easily broken. Skyrim is not perfect. If Fallout 4 learns anything from it, I hope it learns from its mistakes. However, if gamers are so willing to "get over it", Fallout 4 will be exactly like Skyrim. I love Skyrim, but that's a disappointing thought to me.

Edit: @ your edit: Are you daft? Of course it's an opinion. That's what this entire thing is. Opinions. o_O

[Jagdgeschwader]

By saying "breaking accidentally" perhaps I just left too much up for interpretation and assumed you wouldn't think of me as some moron, guess I was wrong. I, like most people who played this game, was only like one level away from the next smithing upgrade so I bought some iron ingonts (because I had too much money) and smithed some daggers. Whoa, wait, I have a level 20 smithing, and smithing one iron dagger gives me half a level? Right here is where the magic breaks because I am now aware that no matter what I find in the game, I can make it easier with less than five minutes of effort. This is literally a thing that is true. I didn't blatantly press the A button; I did it gradually as much as possible where I left smithing alone until I felt I reached a natural point where I should get new armor and then used the dagger trick to get new armor. As it is, I STILL haven't made dragon armor because of that. It's too easy to do, too convenient, and takes too little time.

And let's talk about realism, because you have a point; why SHOULDN'T I be able to make my own sword? The answer to that is because there are dungeons to explore, quests to conquer, where you can be rewarded swords. In a realistic world we can see this as bothersome because dungeons are dangerous and quests are cumbersome and besides, isn't it much more manly to make my own sword? In a video game though, dungeons and quests are the meat and bones that make the game great. I don't know about you, but once I conquer a dungeon, I like to be rewarded for my efforts, and it is so disheartening to get to the end to find some kind of paltry item because I make my own so much better and easier! Being able to make my own stuff takes away from the fun of exploring to FIND stuff.

Where do we draw the line on realism? Why does my armor and swords no longer degrade? That's a very realistic thing that's been present in TES games for a long time. Why can I fast travel, become the master of all guilds, master literally every skill set, etc.? Isn't that unrealistic? And if it's not, why am I the only person that does that ever? Why does no one else (AI that is) ever try to become the masters at anything? Isn't that unrealistic? Don't even get me started on the list of things that I should be able to do, if realism persists.

Jag, you are literally proving my point by listing all these skills that can be easily broken. Skyrim is not perfect. If Fallout 4 learns anything from it, I hope it learns from its mistakes. However, if gamers are so willing to "get over it", Fallout 4 will be exactly like Skyrim. I love Skyrim, but that's a disappointing thought to me.

Edit: @ your edit: Are you daft? Of course it's an opinion. That's what this entire thing is. Opinions. o_O

It never ceases to amaze me how you can make absolutely THE biggest deal out of nothing. Like I stated before, I had no "problem" with smithing before you told me about this. Your entire quandary is based upon you not having self restraint. If every time you need to level up, you go and smith a shit ton of iron daggers, that's completely your problem.

Don't even pull the whole "You're not seeing it from my perspective" crap that you've been doing the entire evening. I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's only a problem if you want to make it a problem. End of discussion. I have problems with many games that I wish were the other way around. I wish that ammunition had weight all of the time in Fallout, I wish that Reach had another forge capable map, and I wish Battlefield had faction specific weapons. I get over it, and I compensate for it. I play Fallout on hardcore even though I don't like dehydration and starvation, I deal with the fact I have only one map to really forge on in Reach, and in Battlefield I use nothing but faction specific weapons, no matter how much they suck and no matter how much other weapons rape everything.

If I can do it, so can you. Don't like smithing? The only person you're ruining it for by using it is yourself, so get some damn self restraint and don't use it so you can make use of the "dungeon reward system" and quest rewards.

[A Groovy Tophat]

By saying "breaking accidentally" perhaps I just left too much up for interpretation and assumed you wouldn't think of me as some moron, guess I was wrong. I, like most people who played this game, was only like one level away from the next smithing upgrade so I bought some iron ingonts (because I had too much money) and smithed some daggers. Whoa, wait, I have a level 20 smithing, and smithing one iron dagger gives me half a level? Right here is where the magic breaks because I am now aware that no matter what I find in the game, I can make it easier with less than five minutes of effort. This is literally a thing that is true. I didn't blatantly press the A button; I did it gradually as much as possible where I left smithing alone until I felt I reached a natural point where I should get new armor and then used the dagger trick to get new armor. As it is, I STILL haven't made dragon armor because of that. It's too easy to do, too convenient, and takes too little time.

And let's talk about realism, because you have a point; why SHOULDN'T I be able to make my own sword? The answer to that is because there are dungeons to explore, quests to conquer, where you can be rewarded swords. In a realistic world we can see this as bothersome because dungeons are dangerous and quests are cumbersome and besides, isn't it much more manly to make my own sword? In a video game though, dungeons and quests are the meat and bones that make the game great. I don't know about you, but once I conquer a dungeon, I like to be rewarded for my efforts, and it is so disheartening to get to the end to find some kind of paltry item because I make my own so much better and easier! Being able to make my own stuff takes away from the fun of exploring to FIND stuff.

Where do we draw the line on realism? Why does my armor and swords no longer degrade? That's a very realistic thing that's been present in TES games for a long time. Why can I fast travel, become the master of all guilds, master literally every skill set, etc.? Isn't that unrealistic? And if it's not, why am I the only person that does that ever? Why does no one else (AI that is) ever try to become the masters at anything? Isn't that unrealistic? Don't even get me started on the list of things that I should be able to do, if realism persists.

Jag, you are literally proving my point by listing all these skills that can be easily broken. Skyrim is not perfect. If Fallout 4 learns anything from it, I hope it learns from its mistakes. However, if gamers are so willing to "get over it", Fallout 4 will be exactly like Skyrim. I love Skyrim, but that's a disappointing thought to me.

Edit: @ your edit: Are you daft? Of course it's an opinion. That's what this entire thing is. Opinions. o_O

It never ceases to amaze me how you can make absolutely THE biggest deal out of nothing. Like I stated before, I had no "problem" with smithing before you told me about this. Your entire quandary is based upon you not having self restraint. If every time you need to level up, you go and smith a shit ton of iron daggers, that's completely your problem.

Don't even pull the whole "You're not seeing it from my perspective" crap that you've been doing the entire evening. I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's only a problem if you want to make it a problem. End of discussion. I have problems with many games that I wish were the other way around. I wish that ammunition had weight all of the time in Fallout, I wish that Reach had another forge capable map, and I wish Battlefield had faction specific weapons. I get over it, and I compensate for it. I play Fallout on hardcore even though I don't like dehydration and starvation, I deal with the fact I have only one map to really forge on in Reach, and in Battlefield I use nothing but faction specific weapons, no matter how much they suck and no matter how much other weapons rape everything.

If I can do it, so can you. Don't like smithing? The only person you're ruining it for by using it is yourself, so get some damn self restraint and don't use it so you can make use of the "dungeon reward system" and quest rewards.

+1

[Cloakey100]

Skyrim Actually reminds me of runescape (dunno how many of you played that when you were young but i did)

[Super Mega King]

It never ceases to amaze me how you can make absolutely THE biggest deal out of nothing.

If this appeared to be some kind of huge issue I apologize because it's not, as I've said I love Skyrim, and even more I love talking about it, even to those who disagree with me. In the future, if you think that I am making a big deal out of nothing, simply tell me or stop discussing. It's a discussion. One person says something, the other responds, and the other responds in turn. Natural.

@ At the rest of your post: I could hazard a response but we'd be talking in circles. You and I are obviously not connecting on some wavelength, as I've already addressed why the system bogs down the game just by merely existing. I guess we just have different thought processes. I like to fully understand the things that I enjoy, even if that means harshly criticizing it at its worst, so "get over it" mentality for videogames never really applied to me. I enjoy the game just fine, but can't really ignore the things I dislike. Whereas you, on the other hand, choose to ignore the game's shortcomings because it's a great game, which is also an entirely valid thought process. Let's let bygones be bygones; what had started as an innocent discussion has escalated to something putrid.

[DeadApe]

Coolest goddamn thing ever.

(Slacker showed me this.)

[Meatshield718]

I feel as if you are mad Jag.

You have some preconceived notion that SMK makes a deal out of nothing, and yet your post directly after his follow up on his opinion was to "Get over it".

Rather than posting your opinion on the game, you decided to, instead, bash the idea that smithing is a problem because you don't have to do it.

This is dumb for two reasons.

1. The whole point of critiquing something is to make it better. It might not be THAT BAD, but even minor improvements in a game make it all the better. (See difference between Mass Effect 1 and 2.)

2. You're kind of being a jerk about it. >.>

So why are you talking?

Also, @ Deadape. Now that the mod tools are out, we can expect to see some awesome mods for the next few years considering the large amount of mods that came out and still come out for oblivion.

[MrKurt2012]

Meatshield is right I am betting in a month or so half of those mods from that video could be made and released, which gets me excited that the creation kit is finally released, besides the fact they made a lot of good mods without it.

[eegleindia]

So from what I'm reading, Jag hopes to improve games by... ignoring the problems?

If a game you like is flawed, or has a problem, that doesn't mean the game is RUINED FOREVER. What will ruin a game or a series is refusing to accept that there is a flaw, or insisting that it is not a problem. I've seen so many series I like (In my opinion) ruined by this, especially those that have a particularly rabid fanbase. Developers need feedback, on both what players liked and what they disliked.

Part of the blame does lie on the developers. Often, developers will refuse to listen to criticism of their games, instead listening only to their most rabid fans.
(I'm probably going to get flamed for this.) Take Bioware as an example. After ME2 was released, a significant portion of players felt that the game could have been better, voicing concerns about the reduction of RPG element, a lack of interaction with characters, and a plot that did little to advance the story. Unwilling to listen to critical fans, Bioware began to listen only to those fans who refused to believe that Bioware made an imperfect game. Consequently, Dragon Age 2 was released. Please, don't try to tell me that Dragon Age 2 was anything but a very flawed game. From previews of ME3 and leaked gameplay, I feel that it is safe to say that it will continue this trend. It's a shooter with dialog trees at this point. (This is all my opinion, so put down the pitchforks and torches)

I could list more studios mojang volition that have fallen victim to this, but I won't. Just remember that it is your duty as a fan to acknowledge flaws in games you enjoy.

[Jagdgeschwader]

It never ceases to amaze me how you can make absolutely THE biggest deal out of nothing.

If this appeared to be some kind of huge issue I apologize because it's not, as I've said I love Skyrim, and even more I love talking about it, even to those who disagree with me. In the future, if you think that I am making a big deal out of nothing, simply tell me or stop discussing. It's a discussion. One person says something, the other responds, and the other responds in turn. Natural.

@ At the rest of your post: I could hazard a response but we'd be talking in circles. You and I are obviously not connecting on some wavelength, as I've already addressed why the system bogs down the game just by merely existing. I guess we just have different thought processes. I like to fully understand the things that I enjoy, even if that means harshly criticizing it at its worst, so "get over it" mentality for videogames never really applied to me. I enjoy the game just fine, but can't really ignore the things I dislike. Whereas you, on the other hand, choose to ignore the game's shortcomings because it's a great game, which is also an entirely valid thought process. Let's let bygones be bygones; what had started as an innocent discussion has escalated to something putrid.

I wouldn't say that, but the way you described sounded more or less like you thought it ruined the game in general by making everything too easy.

I feel as if you are mad Jag.

You have some preconceived notion that SMK makes a deal out of nothing, and yet your post directly after his follow up on his opinion was to "Get over it".

Rather than posting your opinion on the game, you decided to, instead, bash the idea that smithing is a problem because you don't have to do it.

This is dumb for two reasons.

1. The whole point of critiquing something is to make it better. It might not be THAT BAD, but even minor improvements in a game make it all the better. (See difference between Mass Effect 1 and 2.)

2. You're kind of being a jerk about it. >.>

So why are you talking?

OK, let's examine my inital post.

It's been a few months. What's everyone's thoughts on Skyrim still? I posted my thoughts above and still basically stand by that. I believe the greatest problem with it is the existence of smithing. Sure, someone once told me, I could ignore smithing entirely, but should I have to completely ignore a game's feature to get enjoyment out of it?

What are your thoughts?

I remember because I told you that, and my advice to you is that it is a single player game, and there have been things in Fallout that I particularly don't like and no offense, but this is what you do.

Get over it.

It's really not that big of a deal, and if you ask me, it's only broken if you abuse it by making iron daggers and leather bracers 200 fold. If you use it normally like you're supposed to, it will level up slowly.

Skyrim in my opinion is one of my favorite games, and I hope Fallout 4 takes many lessons from it. Bethesda is getting good at scaring their players, and this can be employed in Fallout 4 which takes place in a land of horror.

I start out with a rebuttal to his statement, which is what I did tell him, and I am simply reiterating my statement. The answer "Get over it" was honestly not a hostile response, and I was stating what I do when something I feel is wrong in a game that I have control over. This applies completely to smithing, because you have full control over it.

I then stated that it is only broken if you decide to be an assembly line of cheap and easy to build iron daggers. Therefore, ruining it for yourself.

I finish this by saying that Skyrim is one of my favorite games and that they did it well, hoping that things will be used in Fallout 4.

I stated the "It never ceases to amaze me..." line because Super does do this. The occasions on which he has is irrelevant to the discussion right now.

I stated basically that "You don't have to do it, or you can use it realistically and not be a factory" even if you are just a little while away from leveling up. This is still completely in the hands of the player.

I resent the notion that I'm being rude about this, because I'm not. Super has a valid point, and smithing could be improved if by building the same thing over and over again consistently you wouldn't gain anymore skill for it is also a good idea. I'm just saying it's not exactly necessary.

I am talking because I can. This is a topic addressed to everybody, and I was having a conversation with Super over this, and if it looked hostile, then that is how you interpret it.

So from what I'm reading, Jag hopes to improve games by... ignoring the problems?

If a game you like is flawed, or has a problem, that doesn't mean the game is RUINED FOREVER. What will ruin a game or a series is refusing to accept that there is a flaw, or insisting that it is not a problem. I've seen so many series I like (In my opinion) ruined by this, especially those that have a particularly rabid fanbase. Developers need feedback, on both what players liked and what they disliked.

Part of the blame does lie on the developers. Often, developers will refuse to listen to criticism of their games, instead listening only to their most rabid fans.
(I'm probably going to get flamed for this.) Take Bioware as an example. After ME2 was released, a significant portion of players felt that the game could have been better, voicing concerns about the reduction of RPG element, a lack of interaction with characters, and a plot that did little to advance the story. Unwilling to listen to critical fans, Bioware began to listen only to those fans who refused to believe that Bioware made an imperfect game. Consequently, Dragon Age 2 was released. Please, don't try to tell me that Dragon Age 2 was anything but a very flawed game. From previews of ME3 and leaked gameplay, I feel that it is safe to say that it will continue this trend. It's a shooter with dialog trees at this point. (This is all my opinion, so put down the pitchforks and torches)

I could list more studios mojang volition that have fallen victim to this, but I won't. Just remember that it is your duty as a fan to acknowledge flaws in games you enjoy.

This is saying that I have to acknowledge smithing as a flaw when a good amount of people don't see it as a flaw at all in the game.

No, I don't see to improve games by...ignoring their problems...as you stated it. But I do see when something isn't necessarily broken, and that it's just an opinion of mine that it be different. I'm not the chief authority on what is changed and what isn't. If people don't like faction specific weapons on Battlefield, that's on them. It's completely fine they don't. I personally though would like to see it, but I'm not the authority on it. I'd also like to see ammunition always have weight in Fallout, but a good amount of people would like to be able to choose between that on and off. I'm not the authority on it.

Don't fix what's not broken. That's why mods are golden for single player games. You can fine tune the game to your liking.

[Super Mega King]

I wouldn't say that, but the way you described sounded more or less like you thought it ruined the game in general by making everything too easy.

I figured you would assume that which is why I reiterated that I thought Skyrim was a good game that I liked in almost every post in this topic, including the ones where I was arguing with you.

I then stated that it is only broken if you decide to be an assembly line of cheap and easy to build iron daggers. Therefore, ruining it for yourself.

My windshield wipers do not work. However, I can drive without using them okay if I'm careful. In fact, I can choose to ignore the windshield wiper function ENTIRELY if I choose so! However, this doesn't make the wipers any less broken. Roundabout way of saying: it is broken because you have the ability to assembly line. If you personally chose not to, that doesn't mean it's any less broken.

I am talking because I can. This is a topic addressed to everybody, and I was having a conversation with Super over this, and if it looked hostile, then that is how you interpret it.

As I am, so don't give me baseless attacks such as "always make a big deal out of nothing"

Don't fix what's not broken. That's why mods are golden for single player games. You can fine tune the game to your liking.

It is broken though, as are a lot of things in the game (NOTE I DO LIKE SKYRIM). You pointed out yourself half a dozen examples of skills that can be reworked or fixed to avoid blatant cheating.

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