Re: All bout america

**Super Mega King** 21st March 2011, 11:58 pm

That is... so warped. :/

I feel as if eaustinn can explain more eloquently than me exactly why that's wrong other than me suggesting common sense.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:00 am

eaustinn36 wrote:
andr_00_ew wrote:Erik, there are shelters that provide food and shelter during night time everywhere. NOBODY in this country has it that bad. Especially if they have a child that they need to care for. Also, they are more then qualified for food stamps, maybe not welfare because he has 2 jobs, but definitely food stamps

Granted it was made up, but this is why many people need a reality check. SOME people do have it that bad, or close to.

And you bring up something great: Food stamps. Great program that helps out the poor. BUT WAIT! Who pays and funds food stamps? The federal government. Who funds the federal government? Well, generally that would be the average American taxpayer. So wait a minute.. what is this? People higher class than "James" paying higher taxes to help James. Redistribution of wealth?!? Oh my god, it's socialism. We need to stop this socialist program at once; let them starve!

This is why the people with higher income should pay more. If the gov't lets say needs an average of $50,000 per person in taxes, would it be fair to tax everyone the same? Sure the rich would love it: $50,000 of of over $27,000,000 is still pretty much 27mill. What about the people making less than $50,000 each year? Well yeah, they're screwed. With a progressive tax rate, the poor pay less, but a much reasonable percentage of their income. The rich would pay a lot more, but wouldn't feel it (as said before). Redistribution of wealth to some degree through taxation is essential; there are many good gov't programs that help the less fortunate.

I'll stop there though, considering I think i'm drifting off topic from your original point too much.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT (b/c of recent posts):

Things like welfare and food stamps need to be around, I don't see why you're assuming that I want people to starve

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 12:10 am

Also, what austin said in his edit sort of speaks volumes.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:11 am

Ok, I'm going to ask you guys a question. If this is the right thing to do, why isn't it happening?

Edit: No offense to you guys, but no matter how hard people try, the government will never take the right/moral way unless they benefit from it

**eaustinn36** 22nd March 2011, 12:20 am

You say food stamps and welfare should be around, yet don't support a progressive tax. I don't get it. A non-progressive tax taxes the poor way to much, putting the burden on them. If they can't afford to pay these steep taxes (not steep to the rich though), they can never "get out of the rut" of poverty. A lot of people are literally stuck at poverty level. They might have a minimum wage job and an apartment, but that's it. Rest goes to taxes. The gov't needs the money from somewhere, so why not take it from the people that can afford it. It is in the constitution that the federal gov't has the right to tax, so to expand on my point earlier; yes, the gov't does have the right to take the rich people's money. Our taxation setup right now is creating a larger rich/poor gap.

You mention "what would you do if you were homeless? Just sit in an alleyway and let yourself starve? That's the only way that will happen, if you let yourself". Glad you think like that, but i'm going to have to slap you back to reality. Many homeless have no choice. As Super said, your view on this is so warped it's not even funny. Many can't get a job; who would want to hire someone in rags and smells? Even if they can land a job for something minor, it will still barely keep them alive. Have you seen food prices lately? All the stuff you and I take for granted, many people would cut off their hand for. Also, as Super stated, homeless shelters are definately not everywhere, and the ones that are available are overcrowded. I have known people in my old high school that would walk up to people asking "Are you going to finish that?" It is very tragic, and I feel for them. Many can't afford 3 meals a day.

You view on the poor is out of reality. You have no idea what it is like out there in the "real world", beyond your nice warmth holding house.

NOTE: I am not saying I know either.

EDIT (to address question): Why isn't it happening? Well, that would be greed my friend. Easy for the wealth to turn the other cheek and ignore the problem. In their mind: If they pretend it doesn't exist, it will go away. It's not like any of it will affect them anyways.

DOUBLE EDIT (to address your edit): I don't take offense, don't think I am. I'm just glad noone has resorted to name calling or intense flaming yet. Nothing wrong with a civil debate to address points. I'm not trying to offend anyone in mine either. ~~That being said, please rephrase the edit; don't quite understand what you mean.~~

TRIPLE EDIT (yeah, this could go on awhile): Just realized what you mean't. What do you think the gov't is, really? It's not a corperation. The gov'ts purpose is to serve the people. Private business's purpose is to make a maximum profit, just like insurance companies. The gov't isn't the enemy here. You say they won't do anything unless they benefit from it. NO, they won't do anything unless WE benefit from it. This is why we elect them after their terms. We don't like what they've done for us, we vote them out. Can't do that with private industry.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:24 am

eaustinn36 wrote:

You view on the poor is out of reality. You have no idea what it is like out there in the "real world", beyond your nice warmth holding house.

mega king made the same assumption, I'm middle class, I grew up in a normal house, and now I live in a 1 bedroom apartment close to my school because that's all I need at the moment. I pay bills, and taxes. I'm going to have to pay back a loan I took for school. I pay for my own gas, insurance, food, clothing without government help, and I'm 19 years old. If I can do that, I'm sure many others can too.

edit: this is the actual response to your post. They won't get a job most likely, the point I was trying to make is that they won't starve. This is all this topic has been for me, I write out a response, and everyone reads around it and throws trash like that at me. Did I even mention a job? NOPE, I said they wouldn't starve, which is something they should be grateful for.

**eaustinn36** 22nd March 2011, 12:32 am

andr_00_ew wrote:mega king made the same assumption, I'm middle class, I grew up in a normal house, and now I live in a 1 bedroom apartment close to my school because that's all I need at the moment. I pay bills, and taxes. I pay for my own gas, insurance, food, clothing without government help, and I'm 19 years old. If I can do that, I'm sure many others can too.

Well then I am even more shocked then how you still are out of the reality. And think about it, you're still in a VERY good situation. You have a family with a home, food, etc.. to fall back on if you run into trouble. You have a health insurance plan (most likely through your parents), so that's another expense off your back. That's the problem here: Many people take the stance "Oh, if I can do it, they can too!". Nope, not how it works in the real world.

NOTE: I've edited the previous post a couple times if you missed it (just checking).

EDIT: Sorry to burst your perfect world bubble, but people (believe it or not) actually DO starve in this country, every day. Some even die because of it.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:40 am

You guys should take your own advice and look at it from a different perspective, not everyone has the same experience or point of view as you do. You basically keep going from topic to topic hoping that I will drop my beliefs and think the same way. I just read through everything again and it's extremely repetitive. In the first few pages it seemed like you guys read only the parts of my posts that you could use against me

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 12:41 am

You have simply not provided any logical reason for why I should believe any different. I feel as if you are avoiding eaustinn's point that you are living in a protected bubble and that there are many people who starve and that some even die because of it.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:43 am

I'm just glad none of us get to decide what really happens to this country, then we'd totally have a problem.

Edit: This is why I always try my hardest to stay neutral when it comes to politics, because no matter what I say or do nothing changes

Edit 2: I'm not in any " bubble" I just realize that nothing will come out of redistributing wealth. Only inching towards what we fought against since WW2

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 12:47 am

Nothing will come of hoarding wealth, Andrew.

The only thing that can come from redistributing wealth is the improvement of the lives of millions of America. Isn't that a noble enough cause?

I say again. Progressive tax rates work in other countries. There is no reason why they can't work here.

**eaustinn36** 22nd March 2011, 12:48 am

eaustinn36 wrote:Easy for the wealth to turn the other cheek and ignore the problem. In their mind: If they pretend it doesn't exist, it will go away.

The poverty problem will not go away by denying the severity of it.

And I have already looked at your perspective, and I have known people in the past who think the same way you do. It appears however you have not done the same.

And what part of your posts have (I at least) been dodging? Believe me, it is not intentional. Please, by all means, bring it to my attention, and I will address that point.

EDIT: To expand on Super's post, not only has the progressive tax rate worked everywhere else, but it has never failed. I honestly can not see a single negative of it, and apparently neither can every other 1st world country.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:53 am

There's something on every page. There was how I want to join the military but don't believe in the war we're fighting at the moment. It's like everyone in the military is closed minded and brainwashed.

Then there was how I never even mentioned homeless people getting jobs but was mainly speaking of homeless shelters and someone said " how will a smelly raggy person get a job?" when I didn't even mention it.

Then previously when I said when we pull out of the war that military spending will go way down until another conflict and we didn't need to cut anything. Someone jumped out and said " the military spending is on top of the graph, why would you want to push more money into the military?"

Basically, reading what you want to read so you can attack it.

I at least read each post before I respond, completely.
Edit: Many of the impoverished need to help themselves before anyone else can. Also many of them truly deserve the help but aren't getting it. But we just can't pamper everyone. Poor people don't have it nearly as bad as other countries do, we're not doing that bad of a job

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 12:54 am

eaustinn36 wrote:
eaustinn36 wrote:Easy for the wealth to turn the other cheek and ignore the problem. In their mind: If they pretend it doesn't exist, it will go away.

The poverty problem will not go away by denying the severity of it.

And I have already looked at your perspective, and I have known people in the past who think the same way you do. It appears however you have not done the same.

And what part of your posts have (I at least) been dodging? Believe me, it is not intentional. Please, by all means, bring it to my attention, and I will address that point.

EDIT: To expand on Super's post, not only has the progressive tax rate worked everywhere else, but it has never failed. I honestly can not see a single negative of it, and apparently neither can every other 1st world country.

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 12:57 am

You are guilty of dodging questions too broseph.

Allow me to bold the exact question that I have been yearning for an answer to all day.

Explain to me why progressive tax rates won't work in this country. Why is this country so different than any other first world country? Why can't we have progressive tax rates? What makes us so damn special?

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 12:58 am

I answered you.

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 1:01 am

You didn't.

You told me multiple times that the poor are poor because of bad decisions, but that doesn't answer it.

You defined the term once or twice, but that doesn't answer it.

You told me because the wealthy should be able to keep their wealth, but that doesn't ansewr it.

If any of your points are valid: Explain why it works in other countries but why it can't work in America.

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 1:06 am

I'm not going to pretend that I know what goes on in other countries, I don't care Smile

I just know that at the moment, we're better off.

It's just the fact that we're still the best country economically, so why try to fuck around and change things.

^^^ answer, which is nothing new from what I said previously.

Another example of not reading what I said. You said "You told me multiple times that the poor are poor because of bad decisions, but that doesn't answer it."2 posts ago I said "Many of the impoverished need to help themselves before anyone else can. Also many of them truly deserve the help but aren't getting it".

It's like you're trying to make me look like some evil bastard that wants eternal hell for the poor and infinite happiness for the rich.

Some people are just plain lazy, some people drew the short straw in life.

Also, a few pages ago I said that some people are born into wealth, or born into poverty.
Not everyone can control how their life plays out.

**eaustinn36** 22nd March 2011, 1:08 am

andr_00_ew wrote:I at least read each post before I respond, completely.

As have I. You think i'm dodging you points? No, not trying to. I have addressed most of your point you mentioned, but I will now re-address them:

1. We an "good old USA" will always be at war. Considering how many nations we've pissed off, it is hard to avoid. Even when we said we'd end a war, we start another. A year ago we were involved in 2 wars... well, now we're in 3. If you want to join the military, fine. But the military's purpose is war, that is why it exists. It could be offensive, or defensive, but it is war nevertheless. I said we need to dramatically cut military spending, and to do this, we need to stop sticking our nose into other people's business. You mention that spending will go down when the war is over. No it won't: We'll just find someone else to invade.. oh wait, we already did. I believe bombing started not long ago. Hello another 10 year war!

2. Again, as mentioned before, homeless people can't even find homeless shelters with decent space. You might have not mentioned getting a job directly, but how does one get out of poverty then. You DID mention that most homeless are homeless because they choose to be. If they are ever to get an opportunity to make it big, they need to start (a job) somewhere. Hard work does not always pay off.

3. I didn't state the 3rd point, but leaving the military as is won't work either (for reasons stated earlier). See #1.

That good? Or did I miss something? (if I did let me know)

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 1:10 am

Erik you have no problems with reading and responding to posts

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 1:11 am

'm not going to pretend that I know what goes on in other countries, I don't care
I just know that at the moment, we're better off.

How does this make any sense! You don't know what's going on, yet you know we're better off? This is the very essence of everything wrong in our country! There is nothing but ignorance in that statement. Nothing at all.

How can you say we're the best off economically when we are in the current economic downfall? How does that make ANY sense?

How can you view the issue of quality of life from a warped economic POV?

"why try to fuck around and change things"

Why indeed, Andrew. Things are obviously so great as they are now. There are kids killing kids in Chicago. The education system is falling. There are people every day starving and trying to make ends meet subjugated by the upper class.

Why indeed.

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 1:13 am

andr_00_ew wrote:Erik you have no problems with reading and responding to posts

I have read every post of yours in excruciating detail. The points you don't think I respond to I choose to ignore because I feel as if I can adequately explain them elsewhere or have already. Also, why would I respond to your posts when Erik already has so efficiently?

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 1:14 am

There's always going to be crime and so on. People killing people is human nature unfortunately and I don't understand why we're going into that now. We're doing better economically so we're better off then others. I phrased my previous post incorrectly. What I mean is that if we're still economically superior we can't be that far off.

edited***

**Super Mega King** 22nd March 2011, 1:15 am

We are NOT doing better economically. We are in a recession. We are, as austin said, "owned by China".

You know nothing of other countries yet try to argue that we are better. How is this logical?

**andrew** 22nd March 2011, 1:17 am

The whole world is in a recession. No matter how hard we try we can't be like China, they're the exact opposite. You think they care about the poor? They work or they starve, that's communism. Nobody is special, its like their citizens aren't even human.

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